I would be happy to … I will atempt to exsplain using trailer towing hints, In the case you quoted I would say yes the engineer was out running his slack while keeping speed up to climb the hill. If we was running a train ( people here like coal trains) lets say 78 car manifest train train is 6750 long and 5400 tons.the 1st 1/3 of train is auto racks and a few box cars. 2nd 1/3 is mostly empty gons and a few lumber racks rear 1/3 is loaded tank cars and weighing 3600 tons. ( yes these trains are built like this and are a pain to run) we are running at 50 mph, we are approching a hill from the bottom up to the top is 3100ft cresting would take about 250 ft before starting down. the down hill is 2100 .then leavel for 1200 ft then climb another hill this one being 1620 ft then a small crest again then down hill 940 ft then up hill again then a drop of 3100ft and then leval ground again/ here is how i would approach this ( 2 dash 9 ge
I hate trains like that.
In rolling terrain I’ll do a lot of stretch braking. The problem with that is we can no longer “power” brake, nothing above run 4 with the air set, so it makes for a bit more of a challenge.
Also, you can’t always run track speed while controlling the slack correctly. Like said above, oftentimes you must notch back before cresting a hill to let speed drop a bit so you don’t get going too fast down the other side. It all depends on the train length, train makeup, and the terrain. Every trip is a bit different, and most every train has to be handled differently.
wabash1: [tup] That was an excellent explanation. Thanks!
In your example, you note the different type of cars, and how they affect train handling. Is the engineer given a list of cars and loads in his train, so he can study(?) it, before taking off?
It’s obvious, from your example, that the engineer has to know his train and the territory. How do railroads familiarize their engineers with the territory? Are there training runs, riding with engineers familiar with the territory?
Yes, excellent responses…sounds like running a train involves alot of skill. That’s probably why engineers start out as brakemen for a few years prior to becoming engineers. It’s not the kind of job you can bring someone in from the outside and train them in three weeks.
You might be able to teach them to run the locomotive in three weeks. Getting it over the road, as has been so vividly illustrated, is the challenge.
Personally I would love the drive a train. Once. That’s it. Trucking I can show you lots.
I feel a monkey can be trained to DO anything with equiptment but it is the experience, understanding of dangers and availible options combined with the flipping of the right switches makes it all happen safely.
I am somewhat consider myself A+ in mountain driving as I prefer this driving over all others. But I cannot stand to think of many cars attached together in a train hanging over one hill while running off another or worse trying to roll backwards off a third. Yeesh.
One post in this thread refered to a Junker locomotive. Tell me, why would a engineer consider a choo choo junk? Im ignorant about these things you see…
Poor performance. Some models have a history of same.
I’m sure those in the trucking industry have similar opinions about certain makes and models of semi-tractors (or trailers, for that matter). Of course, opinions vary, so what one engineer thinks is is junk, another might well have as his first choice.
Does it count as a “Junker” locomotive if it stays in the eastern part of Germany and is used to transport minor royalty and large landowners who support Kaiser Wilhelm? - al [:P]
While not everyone will get your joke, some of us do![(-D]
I thought Junkers fly. Ya know the planes. =)
Looks like someone just outscooped me! - al
the conductor is given a wheel report and tonnage profile , the tonnage profile is a list of the cars and the weight in a line graph form, Now when i decide to look at the tonnage profile ( you know from exsperance which to look at) i treat it like a girl, if the lines go to the right on the paper the car is heavy stays on the left boarder light. small example
ns 2600 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
ns 2601 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
rbox 12 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
rbox 13 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
ns 21 xxxx
ns 22 xxxx
csxt 1 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
csxt 2 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
short train just use imagination, now there are 3 types of trains ( remeber girls figures) if all the long lines are top of page and get thiner toward bottom top heavy girl fun to run no challenge. then you come to the fun figure girl hour glass design great top slim middle then fill out on the rear, this train wiil run good then as the middle gets out of trouble he
Im sorry but you will never drive a train, im a engineer and ive never driven a train. and i called dash 9 junk because it wont load fast enough ( your smoke will beat you up hill) where you get a emd and get your train across the road. I have had some ge engines that load fair but i think the factory recalled them to make them operate like the others.
Wabash1,
Why is a short train hard to run?
Not Wabash, but I’ll help out with the answers.
A short heavy train will react to changes in grade much faster than a long heavy train. A long train has the tail end holding you back as you crest a grade and start down, while a short train will get more than half the train over the top in a hurry and away she goes. The weight of the train will help pull you over the top.
Also, a short train will react to short grades where a long one will not gain near as much as the whole train is not on the hill.
A good example is a loaded sulfur train. Around 10,000 tons and 3200 feet long. You are in and out on the throttle on these things all the time. Since AC4400’s react so slowly to the throttle I end up using the air a lot on these things. Most every downgrade of any length at all and the brakes get set. Being just 3200 feet long, you only need to be about 1500 feet past the crest of the grade and the train starts pulling you over and away it goes.
Wabash1,
Is the load regulator on the new units computer-controlled? The reason I ask, is that, years ago, with the old load regulators, they could be tuned by the shop forces to load either quicker or slower, depending on the preference. Our suburban locomotives were set up such that even with the throttle in ‘idle’, the load regulator remained in ‘maximum field’. When we cracked the throttle open, we’d better have the independent fully set, otherwise everyone standing instantly found a place to sit (whether they wanted to or not). We’d get an near-instant 1500 amps. Sure got us out of town quick, though. Which was the reason for setting them up that way. We’d make 20 station stops in less than 40 miles. I always thought that loading that quick would be tough on the traction motors, but those F7s and E8s just kept on working. Maybe because they started out in “series” it wasn’t so bad for the motors.
Xlspecial did a great job on the answer, yes by the time you get out of the throttle your over the hill and rolling, its either air to controll speed or out of throttle early and into dynamic quick, fly down the hill and hold the train then by the time it starts loading again your going to slow ( my standard) and crawling up the next hill. a long train you can let the terrain help controll the speed just by moving the throttle. on a short train your always doing something. and yes on a short heavy train air is your best friend.
It was a joke I did have these engines once and they loaded up quick but ive never seen them again so i jokingly said they must have been recalled and yes they are electronic and the railroad does set them up, and they are slow!!! 60 mph in 30 min and the 1/4 mile time is 31mph in 12min 35sec.
Heh. Sounds like the derating of horsepower and choking down the engines with governer settings. There is a diagnostic unit availible that one could uh, optimize the engine away from the company specs… sadly they regulated those little gizmos. But a friendly laptop computer and a serial connection took care of that. Evidence? C:\ format. heeee. That is how I caught one company setting thier trucks at 63 and displaying 65 on the speedometer.
Hauling a trailer that is rear end heavy is worse than one heavy on the 5th wheel. But taking into account center of gravity, a load of salt on 24 pallets 4 feet high is much fun to drive than a 50,000 pound 8 foot high, 20 foot long steel coil bellyloaded in the middle.
xlspecial,
Thanks for the great answer. Makes a lot sense once it’s explained.