Presumably that’s what we’re looking at here
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e390/MikeMacDonald/PennTower.jpg
The east half of the post office opened around 1914, but the west half of the block was still in the open until around 1932 when the post office expanded west to 9th Ave.
Has to be…
In fact, you can see the “X” of the overhead 3rd rail over the track centers in the picture.
The diagram proves me correct. The diagram extends west to 10th Avenue. The diagonal platform was not a passenger platform and did not have stairways or escalators or elevators to the station itself. Does it still exist> Possibly it was a specifically mail or parcel platform. 9th, 8th, and 7th Avneue are all shown running north and south above the station tracks.
No, I don’t believe the diagonal platform exists any more. Platform 1 in the diagram was mainly for mail…I remember seeing RPO’s and bulk storage cars parked there for both PRR and NH.
And still, I reiterate, I don’t believe there were overhead wires in third rail days. prior to the big electrification project. The picture of gantry like structures carried power cables and compressed air pipes for the swtiches.
True, no overhead wires in 1910-- but there was overhead 3rd rail where needed, and it’s a good bet that’s what the pic shows.
I have never seen a photograph of a DD-1 with the kind of pantograph for “overhead third rail” as the Central called it, that was standard on the S-1 and T-1 “motors”(electric locomotives) that were used in GCT. Before the 1932 Trenton - Sunnyside Yard and Harold Tower overhead AC 11000V electrification, DD-1’s were the only power used at Penn, other than LIRR commuter cars. DD-1’s were used for switching, for through trains and a few commuter trains from Manhattan Transfer (most commuter trains going to Jersey City), for New Haven Trains from Harold Tower, and LIRR trains from Jamaica. The DD-1’s were a two-unit permentaly coupled locomotive, with longer wheel-base than the T-1’s and S-1’s used by the Central. So possibly they just did not need “overhead third rail” and/or put total reliance on coasting through the puzzle switches.
Here is early picture of DD-1 with overhead pantograph:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/82/PRR_DD1.jpg
Note there is one on each “D” suggesting no buss between the units. Also, on Wikipedia, there is an elevation drawing that shows the pan.
Perhaps once the catenary went up, they did interconnect the two units. They would have had to get rid of the overhead 3rd rail at that point.
Why would they put them in the air when everywhere else on the system they put them on the ground? 3rd rail power cables and compressed air piping easily fits between the ties. Much cheaper and easier to maintain on the ground.
Wat is more interesting is the third rail in that picture is under running NYC style third rail??
Sure nuff-- and looks like the DD1 has maybe been converted to use it.
Where would NY Central have had a single-track bridge like that, with third rail? Was the electrified part of the Putnam all double track?
Excerpt from The New York Tunnel Extension of The Pennsylvania Railroad (1910)
Cabin “A” is the main interlocking station of the Terminal, controlling all the movements to and from the west and the main-ladder switching movements. In order to obtain a central location and unrestricted view, the building was placed on a bridge over the throat of the ladder tracks about midway between the Post Office Building and Ninth Avenue. This gives the cabin a prominent position in the open yard, and it was thought to justify the design of a somewhat pretentious structure. The building is of the monolithic concrete type, and perhaps might be termed a reinforced concrete building, although, because of its spanning the tracks, and the fact that it serves as a support for the overhead third-rail and signal structures, a considerable quantity of structural steel is buried in its walls; thus it is not a purely reinforced concrete structure. The architecture is of the Mission type, with wide overhanging eaves and low ridged roof, covered with red Spanish tile. Owing to its location over and adjoining the switchwork of the tracks, special care was taken to protect the supporting walls in case of train derailment. At the east the station platforms perform this function, and on the west were placed very massive wedge-shaped fenders composed of 80-lb. T-rails embedded in concrete and carried below and under the track system. The entire floor space of the cabin is occupied by the operating-room, containing the interlocking machine on the floor and the relays and wiring in a gallery above; the gallery girders also act as anchor arms for the cantilever structures attached to the cabin and used for supporting the overhead rail and signal. All signal wiring is carried in a false floor above the concrete floor of the cabin and in ducts through the side-walls and into a basement extending under the enti
Sincerest apologies. Just because I did not see it , doesn’t mean it didn’t happen or exist! The photo of the DD-1, with open-platform wood coaches, yet, indicates overhead third rail must have been in place when Penn Sta. opened . Interesting to learn when the small pantographs on the DD-1’s and the overhead third rail were removed. The DD-1’s did have four pickup shoes, one on each side of each pony truck, so they could bridge gaps a bit better than a T-1. Anyone have photos or whatever to see if the overhead third rail did last until the overhead wire AC electrification?
The photo must have been before the Station’s opening, because it opened with steel coaches.
I remember DD-1’s very well. In addition to the wire train, they were still in use in the post-WWII period on the LIRR with change to steam at Jamaica for Penn Station passenger trains, and also used on freight trains . They definitely did not have the small pantographs at that time. I think I rode behind one once or twice. Other than the wire train, they did not work for the PRR anymore.
Incidentally, there have been occasions where Amtrak has borrowed a set of LIRR M-1 commuter coaches, with adapter coupler-air, to power the wire train.
Keep in mind - especially younger forumites - that virtually all inter-city mail travelled by rail at the time the station was built. Almost every big city post office was built next to (or very close to) a railway station, so mail could be picked up and sent out by train.
On second (or third) thought, the picture of the DD-1 with small pantographs may not be evidence that overhead third rail was actually ever used in Penn Station. The picture is obviously a test run, or roll-out, since wood open-platform coaches were never used in revenue service behind DD-1’s. The PRR was very careful that only steel equpment operated through the tunnels into Penn Station, and this applied both to PRR and to LIRR trains. And much later to NYNH&H, LV, and B&O trains, although possibly they were forced by the US Government to make exceptions for the B&O, but this is doubtful.
The PRR copied the NYC as to intended use of overhead third rail . But possibly they did try out the DD-1’s on the throat and yard trackage without installing the overhead third rail over switch leads during the period that only LIRR MU cars provided revenue service into the station. They were pragmatists, and certainly there was no overhead third rail in place during the period that I experienced when DD-1’s were still handling through LIRR trains from lines still steam (Montauk, Greenpoint, Port Jefferson, Oyster Bay) into Penn Station. If overhead third rail was actually installed, obviouly it was removed beforer the Trenton - Sunnyside electrification extension, probably well before that, possibly at the time of the first Philadelphia suburban area 11000V AC electrification.
The two prototype New Haven FL-9’s were also equpped with small pantographs for opertion on overhead third rail in GCT. These were removed and were not installed on other 58 FL-9’s.