I was just reading about the CN takover of BC Rail, and one of the big changes is that they are going to get rid of the manned helpers at pemberton, otherwise known as the “Pemberton Pushers.”
The Pemberton Pushers run engineer only, back and forth all day long.
Where abouts in the rest of North America do they still have manned helpers/pushers, and can anyone else think of places where they recently were able to get rid of them?
I assume they must be a fairly big expense.
…Doesn’t Horseshoe still employee some manned helpers…{Altoona to the summit}.
Horseshoe uses SD40-2 helpers, all other helper grades on NS usually use C40-9W’s. I think CSX still has some manned helpers as well.
Augusta mostly uses Dash-9’s and manned
kevin
Never heard the term “assisant locomotive”. On the B&O they were and are called helpers. In train order days when there was a helper on the train the orders were addressed " To C&E Extra 6900, Engine 7412 assisting West". CSX uses manned helpers daily on the east and west side of Sandpatch and the east bound grades east of Grafton WVa.
Helpers are used on most freights that run the Hill both east and west bound. Helpers are added to westbounds at Altoona and usually drop off at Cresson, and added to eastbounds at Conemaugh near Johnstown and normally stay on all the way to Altoona to assist with dynamic braking. Most helpers push on the rear of the trains. Often helpers are moved light between Altoona and Conemaugh to shift power around as necessary.
Pushers on the Pittsburgh Line generally help from the rear, but often couple ahead too. It is not uncommon to have heavier Westbound General Manifests coming around Horseshoe Curve upgrade with head end as well as rear help… I also have seen helpers couple ahead of Eastbounders out of Johnstown…Headend crew might be getting close to outlawing, so a helper couples ahead to take it over the mountain to Altoona for a crewchange. I have witnessed a number of eastbound Coaldrags stopping at MO in Cresson due to crew being close on hours, and watched the helpers couple ahead right in front of me. 4 bangers…which are 2 pair of helpers coupled together are often used on heavier Eastbound Coaldrags out of Conemaugh and also used on the 69J and 67Z symbols which are westbound gondolas loaded with steel slabs…Also, Conemaugh is not always the western end of the helper district. Heavier trains can get pushers all the way from Pittsburgh, as the line is roller coaster west of Johnstown and helpers help control slack action. Often, the Westbound slabtrains will cut one pair of rear helpers at MO, or Conemaugh, and leave the rear helper on all the way to at least CP Wing, otherwise known as Wilmerding. east of Pittsburgh. Heavier eastbounders out of Pittsburgh often take the Conemaugh Line, which is a much milder grade than the mainline, to avoid helpers between Pitt and Conemaugh…A year ago, the Conemaugh line was shut down for 2 weeks for Maintenance, so everything had to run the mainline…I was out at Latrobe, one day during this timeframe,about 45 minutes West of Johnstown, and they were running helpers on alot of trains that day…Helper crews on this line rely on the amp gauge,and the headend calling them on the radio letting them know what signals are, so they know how hard to push…if a signal goes to a more restricting indication, the headend will call the rear helpers somwehat like this…’ NS 18G 9524 calling the helper 3373, we got a restricting up here at MO, and we’re slowing down…Helper respo
I might also add that manned helpers are still being used on the CSX Sand Patch Grade, between Cumberland and Connelsville, Pa. SD50’s are the helper power there. Unlike the Norfolk Southern Line over Horseshoe Curve, Helpers on Sand Patch usually stay on their own side of the Mountain…Westbounders shove out of Cumberland up to the Summit and then uncouple and head light back down to Cumberland…Eastbounders usually shove from Connellsville to the Summit and cutoff and run light back to Connellsville, this is because the distances from the helper bases to the summit are a fairly good distance, more than on the NS line. On NS, helpers running west on a train out of Altoona, may cut off up at UN, (Gallitzin), or MO in Cresson, and run light back to Altoona for another Westbound shove ( or couple ahead of an outlawing Eastbound at MO) or they can stay on the rear of the train for dynamic braking down to Conemaugh, where they will usually cutoff to wait for another eastbound shove…Eastbound helpers on NS will usually run all the way down to Altoona, unlike Sand Patch, where crews out of Connellsville will cut off at the top…Dave WIlliams http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nsaltoonajohnstown
Does anyone know why UP puts the DPU helpers on the MRVWC and takes them off of the MWCRV at Roseville instead of Bakersfield? They are running about 300 miles through a valley with very easy grades. Does closing the locomotive maintenance at Bakersfield save enough money to justify this or is there another reason?
I few (6 to 8) years ago, I saw a Conrail slab train in Altoona that had two SD80MAC’s in the front, two in the middle, and two more at the rear. I’ll never forget that!
They were using all 80 MACS? That is unusual…I know up to the end of Conrail, on certain heavy Westbounders, such as the old BAPI (Baltimore to Pittsburgh), they were cutting helpers into the middle. Anyone that has viewed 150 years at Horseshoe Curve, by Revelation Video, will recall footage toward the end of the video showing a Conrail Freight in the mid 1990’s heading around Horseshoe Curve with mid-train help. NS stopped this practice, because it simply took too much time to break the train apart in Altoona and Conemaugh to attach and remove the mid-train helpers…That’s a new one to me that they did something like this with a pure 80MAC lashup…Dave Williams http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nsaltoonajohnstown
Dave and ajmiller…Interesting stuff. Very interesting all the details described. Sounds like the Johnstown / Altoona area still has plenty of it…{It gets my attention because my home, in the growing up years, was in the Johnstown area}.
I used to assemble some of the DPU consists out of Roseville and theMRVWC was one of my regular assignments. We started out using MAC-9043’s, two on point and one midtrain. It was really a pain in the butt trying to learn how to operate the DPU. It is controlled by a black box in the lead unit. That box can do everything but start the unit. If the engineer doesn’t need the Hp. he / she can place the unit in neutral and just drag it .
Well, this area is like my 2nd home…My parents were born and raised in South Fork, near Johnstown, and my Great Grandfather was a steam engineer for the PRR, worked for the PRR for 40 yrs…I spent summer vacations and holidays as a child watching trains from my Grandparents houses in South Fork…I spend quite a bit of time out in the area railfanning nowadays…(basically my entire vacation time spread out throughout the year).I think I am literally one of the Station Inn’s best customers…Dave Williams
I have not seen those on the MRVWC/MWCRV in a long time. Now it is mainly AC44CTEs and SD70Ms with SD60s, SD60Ms, 9-44CWs, 8-40Cs, 8-41CWs, and even an occasional SD40M-2 thrown in. Now the helpers are almost always on the back of the train.
I found a DPU checklist lying on the ground by the train yard once.
In the early days of Conrail, whatever was running could be a helper. CR finally settled on the ex-CNJ SD40’s and the 13 ex-EL SD45-2’s.
After the SD40’s were retired, the helper fleet consisted of SD40-2’s and SD45-2’s.
Even NS has seen fit to rely on SD40-2’s to push and pull heavy freight and unit trains.
Even now there is an NS 536 coaltrain waiting at CP C in Conemaugh for his rear end helper(s).
It could get a 4-banger!
They don’t cut off the helpers at Fresno for the trip back to LA. I don’t see very many trains leaving Roseville going south with helpers on them? Do they just need help for the northbound trip?
The Pennsy even used Mid-Train helpers. A Horseshoe Curve Retrospective video showed an Iron-ore train in the mid 1950’s departing Altoona with Baldwin Centipedes as rear helpers, and a conglomeration, including a GP-7 Cabless unit as mid-train. The narrator indicated that this train was stopping in Gallitzin to cut off one helper set. I believe it was the rear helper. If it was the mid-train helper, the Train probably stopped at UN, or MO in Cresson, cut the train in half, took the mid-train set out, and then put the train back together…If it was the rear helper, It could have stopped near UN just west of the Gallitzin Tunnels and then the rear helpers could have cut off, and gone around the loop track between UN and AR…or else the train stopped at MO in Cresson and helpers would have just reversed direction and crossed back over at MO to an eastbound track. In later Conrail years, I believe the Mid-train units usually stayed on until at least Conemaugh. Dave Williams http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nsaltoonajohnstown
No, helpers are not added to or taken from trains at Fresno. There may have been a couple of cases where this was done for some reason. However, it is definately not the rule. On the rare occasions where I have seen locomotives added to or taken from trains at Fresno, it was always at the front end.
It is interesting that you said you do not see many trains going south out of Roseville with helpers. Almost all MRVWCs that I see have helpers, however it is not unusual to see MWCRVs without helpers. This is true for north of Fresno. The southboard (railroad eastbound) trains are usually loaded with lumber whereas the northbound (railroad westbound) usually have large block(s) of empty lumber cars. Of course eastbound and westbound flip at Lathrop if UP kept SP’s convention. Then there are the MWCEUs which are almost entirely empty lumber cars.
If you do not make it to the west end of Roseville often, I think I may know why you mainly see trains without helpers. I think Roseville sends usually 2 MRVWCs per day. They also send trains to Fresno, Ceres, Stockton, Ozol (not sure about that), Oakland, San Jose (not sure about that), Mira Loma, and Dolores. Obviously the trains going to San Joaquin Valley locations do not have helpers. I have seen trains coming into Roseville that look like they probably came from Oakland
Dave, my grounds was south of the Johnstown area…{Stoystown, on Rt. 30}, but for years when we came back for a visit we made our stay at the Holiday Inn Hotel in downtown Johnstown. Now, we still visit about twice a year and make our “home” at the Hampton Inn in Somerset but with “new” Rt. 219 it’s just a quick drive to get to the Johnstown area. Often have lunch at “Johnnies” on Main st. in Johnsown. Visit Horseshoe occasionally too…and the Tunnels at Gallitzin…