Okay I know this is going to get a lot of diverse opinions. I have an around the room switching layout. 15 industries and about 45 cars. 2 engines. I have tried computer switch lists, manual switch lists and car cards. They all have their good points and bad points. But how do you all operate?
Eh? LION has a timetable…
Here you can download a .pdf of the LION’s String Table.
and here is the TRAIN REGISTER, it is a different timetable than the one shown above. The book sits in the Tower, and the tower operator records trains as they enter and leave the railroad. Express trains are not show since they do not originate at this interlocking plant even though the plant does move the trains between Lenox Avenue and Nevins Street.
Here you can download a .pdf of the LION’s Tower Register.
The LION has NEVER run the entire 24 hour (real time only) sequence, but once I get two more trainsets converted to operation on this layout I will give it a try. He has a pause button that will stop all trains, timers, and the Railroad Clock, to fix things that need assistance, or to go to prayers, meals, sleep, work or otherwise get a life.
ROAR
I have used car cards & computerized switch lists. Here are my thoughts:
Car Card/Waybiil
- Pro - Easy setup, and is ‘self healing’ if an operator makes a mistake.
- Con - Lots of time to initially filling out the car cards and waybills. Car card mess all over the layout if there is not a ‘shelf’ for the operator to work off of. Size of a ‘packet’ of cars gets too thick with larger trains.
Computerized Switch Lists
- Pro - Works fine for operators - easy to use switch list.
- Con - Lots of initial setup each session, and you really need a full time ‘clerk’ to create new switch lists when a train is classified. This needs to be done before any new jobs can run. I have used Flex-Bill, and one advantage is you do not need to build a database of your cars. You can add a car any time. Once the switch list is ‘tossed’, there is no record of the car. For clubs where folks take their cars home unannounced, this is a good thing. The bad thing is that you need to enter the reporting marks each time as a switch list is generated.
Myself, I have car cards. For a transition era layout, the car cars/waybill format simulates the ‘paper’ handled by the conductor. For a modern layout, the computer generated ‘switch list’ sort of fits in with the era. I am going to build a new layout and have been thinking about transition vs modern this time. The entire car card vs switch list thing will be part of the ‘thought’ process,
Jim
I use computerized switch list. There is a randomness to them.
As an owner, if you are setting up the ops scheme, YOU KNOW what is going to happen all the time. With a computerized switch list, the same cars don’t go to the same four places as a car card system sends them.
Can I ask what program you use to set up your lists?
I use car card/waybills since I’m in control of how many cars arrive on the interchange,the amount of pickups and setouts.
I use a very simple system.
The car cards look like this except the card would say return to CSX via reverse route…I forgot to add that to my example.:
Each car has 10 different waybills that look like this:
When the car is empty the car’s card is in the pickup box and will read return to (say) BN via reverse route…
Elmer,
With car cards, the waybill is separate - it gets pulled after the car is spotted at the last industry. I use a 2 position waybill - the front is the CAR ORDER and the back side is the WAYBILL. When the loaded car is delivered, the waybill is pulled and put in the back of the car order/waybill stack. I have 6 days(or operating sessions) of car order/waybills made up. I ‘pull’ 1/6th of them each day - These are the car orders that the car distributor needs to find perspective empties for.
I think a lot of folks just do not understand how this works and keep ‘re-cycling’ the same waybill on the same car each time - and get the results you described. Our club had a 50’ Soo Line flat car with a lumber load keep cycling between the Pt Charles yard and the lumber yard at Deer Creek. When the car returned to the yard, the yard operators would just flip the waybill and off it went again to Deer Creek. That is when we started pulling the waybill cards after the load had arrived at the consignee. Another advantage was that we did not ‘load up’ one end of the layout due to these miss-bill actions. I pull all of the delivered load waybills between operating sessions - about 20 minutes of work.
With Flex-Bill switch lists, we generate the switch list based on empty cars(or cars we deem ‘empty’) at our main classification yard. The job switch lists are generated and given to the operators. I have ‘tested’ this myself and we will be going to this ‘full time’ after the 1st of the year. The folks who have ‘played along’ with me catch on quite fast. Car card systems more
I also use car cards and waybills, and have a LOT more waybills than car cards. Thus, when I pull, say, a box car waybill from a box car’s card, it goes in the back of a long, skinny file box, behind a couple of hundred other box car waybills. It may be a railroad month before it gets back to the front. In the meantime that box car may have moved, been spotted etc. under the instructions on four, five or a half-dozen other waybills. Then, since I have forty-odd box cars, when that first waybill gets to the front of the file it only has about a 1 in 45 chance of going into the car card for the same box car.
My car cards do double duty. I enter the car’s inspection, repair and modification data on the back. Much easier to read than the 1:80 scale data stencils on the car itself…
Since my absolutely longest train is 20 cars, and since eight of those cars run from staging to staging on a single waybill, the card packs never get overly bulky - even though I also have locomotive cars (with clearance cards instead of waybills) and cards for non-revenue and passenger cars. For cars that are standing still, I have properly designed and organized card boxes at every station, including the staging yards in the netherworld.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
Jim,I agree…I use 10 different waybills for each car but,heres the rub…On my past ISLs a car appears on the interchanged,spotted,unloaded and returned to the interchange that car is removed from the layout and not be seen again till all cars has been cycled though the off layout “interchange” or off layout terminal and the best part it doesn’t take all that many cars to that either.
I also avoid any car that stands out-oh,gee whiz there’s that rusty Railgon again or there’s that pink WSOR boxcar again.You can fool the mind with normally weathered cars but,any car that stands out our minds tend to remember it more then your average weathered (say) NS boxcar.
Jim
What is this flex-bill system you mentioned? I’ve not heard of that.
If you type “Flex-Bill System” into Google, several companies that sell it will show up.
I did that already. Nothing I saw had anything to do with model railroads. It was all business related.
In my many years of Model Railroading I have used all of the various types of popular Operations Schemes.
Sequential
Hand Written/Computer Switch Lists
Car Cards/Waybills
The Modified PIN System - which is my current method.
With all of the above system except the PIN System the set up time to reset the COMPLETE layout after a long OPs Session is much greater!
WHY?
As the Layout Owner HAS TO CHECK every car and its location against a list or Cards someplace along the line!
With a Sequential System - every car and card has to be checked to see that they match Car Number and Location!
With Computer Switch Lists - every car has to be checked that it is Spotted at the right Industry or the next time the Computer Generates a Switching List (and a car is NOT where it is supposed to be) will upset the whole List – especially if the cars picked up need to be on an OUTBOUND Train later in the Session!
Car Cards/Waybills – again they need to be checked when you Flip the cards – but it is not as Critical as a Computer Generated List.
With the PIN System – one can easily scan the cars in a town and determine exactly which cars need to be RePINNED just by looking at the PINS on the tops of the Cars!
If a car was mis-spotted (as in wrong color) for the Town or Industry the NEXT Crew will just move the car to its proper location either in the Town or the NEXT – so the Layout Owner really does not have to do anything with that car – the operating Crew will.
The PIN System and CC/WB & Seq Cards will usually self correct – a Computer Sw List will never self correct – as the Computer will just keep ASSUMING the cars have been properly spotted.
The PIN System is a lot quicker to learn for a NUBE! Associating Colors is a LOT faster than having to READ and REREAD the Lists or Car Cards.
And if Colors are NOT easier – then WHY do so many Layout Owners COLOR Cod
Please explain the PIN system. Does each industry have its own colored pin? How do you decide which car is going to go to what industry? What happens when the car gets to that industry?
I use Rail Op. It’s an older program but works really well. If you are interested in getting a copy, send me a private message.
I think he meant the Tab on Car system. I had used it for quite a while before I went to the computer program.
The way mine worked (since I expanded it) was as follows:
Each town had a color. Each type of car had a color. Each industry had a letter.
I used plastruct ’ I ’ beams that were cut about ½ inch long. The sides of the tab were painted with the car type color. (You make that up yourself). The flat inside part was painted with the town color. On one side was where an empty car was going to pick up a load (industry 1), and the other side was where it was being taken to after being loaded (industry 2). The industry letter was marked on the town color block with a sharpie marker. When the tab was laying flat, there are two bars that face up. These were painted white or black. Black if the car was empty and white if the car had a load.
My system worked as follows: Cars started on a yard track for a specific route. Tabs were pulled randomly from a container and put on the cars with no tabs, empty side up. All the cars on a particular track were put in a train and delivered to their respective industries. Cars that were loaded (with tabs) and at the industries were picked up by that train also, and taken back to the yard and classified on tracks for the next train going to their town destinations. At the end of a session when all trains had been run, the empty tabs on the cars at the industries were turned over to indicate they had been loaded. Cars with loaded tabs at the correct industries were pulled from the
There is a ‘Flex-Bill’ Yahoo Group out there. Once you join you can download the demo version(cannot ‘print’ the switch lists, but you can do everything else). The ‘files’ section has the demo download. It does require MS-Access or you can download the MS run-time component for free. That run-time module can be downloaded from the 'link’s tab of the group.
You can configure it so that you can use AAR codes like XM/LO/HT or the newer UMLC car codes, or even create your own. The system is very flexible and you can print out switch lists in a number of formats. Since there is no database of freight cars needed, you can just ‘capture’ that new ExactRail FBOX box car you bought and use it for a car order. The product costs about $50…
Jim
Thanks everyone for their thoughts and ideas. It seems like there are a lot of ways to operate a railroad, depending on how easy or complicated you want to make it… I think for now I am going to stick with switch lists. Its just me running the railroad so writing up a few switch lists is not that big a deal. I hope to have a YouTube video posted in a few days of the entire railroad.
John[:D]
several months back I saw that the person/persons that produce Rail Op were having some problems with the program( do not remember the exact problem ) , Some people were saying not to purchase the program. do you know if this issue has been resolved or not please PM me and let me know. Otto
Otto,
Rail Op has been around for some time. They have ‘fixes’ available for download to registered customers. The software is not cheap; and being full featured, there is a ‘learning curve’ to the setup/operations.
Why not go out to the web site and look around. They is also Rail-OP user’s group…
http://www.railop.com/index.php?main_page=index
Jim Bernier