MDC 2-Truck Shay. How hard is it really?

Model Railroader General Discussion (Model Railroader)
1

Okay, I know they are a nightmare.

But what it I wanted to re-motor and put in a Tsunami? Would it ever run well?

2

If you can find one at a reasonable price, you might get a copy of The MDC Shay Handbook by Jeff Johnston. I don’t think he covers sound decoders, but he does cover issues with getting it to run well.

Enjoy

Paul

3

Yes, you can make it run well.

I built one about 15 years ago. NWSL had a re-gearing kit for them that I installed. I did use the original motor, but a new can motor will work, although it will not be a direct replacement. You have to take your time. You need to remove every piece of casting flash from all parts in the drive train. Room for a decoder will be tight, but with the smaller ones out now it may fit. The boiler is a solid chunk of metal, so you won’t be able to put anything in it.

There have been a couple of articles in the model press about how to build it correctly and make some minor changes for the better. It would be worth looking them up and getting copies.

The big thing is to follow the instructions to the letter, and don’t “wing it” as a lot of modelers try to do.

4

I have the MDC Climax which is re-motored and re-geared and has a Micro-Tsunami and speaker in it. Speaker is in the cab with a plastic baffle. Had to do a lot of equalizer tuning. Not a loud loco as they were only two small cylinders. Yours has three cylinders. You can search You Tube to hear what prototypes sound like.

You might try the Yahoo mdc/roundhouse Group as some their have re-motored and re-geared the Shay. It is being done.

Some links I have accumulated on this issue.

http://tinyurl.com/yll9dsj

http://www.modelrailroading.nl/ProjectShay/ShayIndex.html

Rich

5

One more link.

http://www.freerails.com/view_topic.php?id=1452&forum_id=36

Rich

6

I have a re-motored climax as well. You saved me a future post. Is that speaker attached to the inside of the roof?

7

The book helps, as do past articles. Basically:

  • the stock electrical pickups don’t work well, and have high friction to boot. Replacement is highly recommended, considered mandatory by some.

  • the stock gears may or may not run smoothly. You will have to clean every bit of flash from the gear teeth, and clean out the bottoms between the gear teeth. This is the step where taking shortcuts causes problems. NWSL offers a regear kit, which is a step up in quality for the gears it replaces. Recommended, especially for a loco with sound, but not critical like the pickups.

  • Chances are you will want to make sure the crankshaft at the engine has only one drive connection rather than to both trucks. If you leave all four axles driving the crankshaft from both ends, you will likely incur binding. The bevel gears on the lineshafts have too much “slop” to time properly with the tighter precision center drive shaft. You can make sure the bevel gears don’t engage except on one truck, or arrange for the telescoping line shaft to slip relative to its mate to relief binding.

  • the stock motor may or may not be worth using. Later models came with pretty decent can motors. Some of the open frames are pretty decent, some are not. With a Micro-Tsunami, I would want to go to a can motor to stay under the 3/4 amp current rating, and not fry a $100 decoder if things went wrong.

I’ve never heard of it tried, but with the NWSL steel gears now available to replace the Bachmann plastic lineshaft gears, they might lead to converting to driving the trucks via the lineshafts - how the prototype, Bachmann, and brass models do it - rather than the MDC/Keystone center drive shaft configuration. Just a thought.

as always, my thoughts, your choices

Fred W

8

Thanks Elmer and Fred for the detailed answers.

Thanks Paul for the book recommendation. I heard of it but never seen it except on eBay a while back.

Thanks for the links Rich. Will check them out during my next break.

9

OR, save your pennies and get a 2 truck PFM/United brass shay, much smoother running, much quieter, working valve gear on the outboard 2 cylinders. The standard 2 truck shay from PFM have gotten fairly affordable since Bachmann brought out thier 3 truck plastic shay. I have built 2 of the MDC shays, upgraded with every possible option other than DCC/Sound and they still just didnt measure up to my PFM shay. My recomendation is if you can wait and save up some more $$, go for a PFM/United brass 2 truck or even a 3 truck shay. I have seen the 2 truck shays with a bad paint job for as cheap as 150-200. Paint on brass is super easy to strip off so you can repaint it. Mike

10

Chip,

Ditto on the NWSL regearing kit. The MDC will pull 6% effortlessly. Not much room for a speaker & sound decoder, unless something new is out there.

Sue

11

Yes, you can see the roof under the speaker. The wire is Kynar wire wrap #30 wire that has very thin insulation and is painted black and not in view.

Rich

12

I built a 3-Truck Shay earlier this year. It wasn’t as hard as I thought it would be, but it’s still a challenging build. I used the NWSL regear kits on mine, and it came stock with a Sagami can motor. You will absolutely want to replace the stock electrical pickups with new ones (I used modified Kadee coupler centering springs), and you may also want to replace the sloppy motor to gearbox coupling with drive tubing.

For more tips on completion, check out this website: http://www.modelrailroading.nl/ProjectShay/ShayIndex.html The guy who put this one together is a master!!

So yes, it can be made to run very well. The open-frame motors in the older kits run as well as can motors (good speed control, low current draw), so there’s no need to remotor. The noise of the gearbox may overpower the Tsunami, though. I saw one website where a guy tried turning the transfer gears into pulleys for a belt. He never updated, but it probably worked much more quietly.

13

Rich, Darth,

I just read through those pages. Great stuff. Thanks.

14

Ibuilt one and I’m legally blind… Go for it!!! dlm