Ok, i am starting my cookie cutter style benchwork and i am wondering if there is a tool to measure grade. From what i understand N scale should be no more than 2%, is this correct?
Two percent is a good grade in N scale, HO scale, O Scale or even 1:1 scale.
How the math works out is beyond the ability of a LION: His claws tear the paper all to pieces and then him gets frustrated.
Inches, feet or miles it is all the same one unit of elevation for every x units of distance.
But what do numbers matter. They never mattered to the LION. You have one track HERE, and you want it to be up THERE, and you have to make your ramp to do this. Make as gentle as possible, but it still has to get THERE regardless of how the numbers work out.
If the train cannot make it from HERE to THERE, then you have to rethink where HERE and/or THERE is located on your layout. Since you is using a cookie cutter, you can simply lift up your ramp, slap some tracks on it and see if your train can handle it, you can even move it up and down to see how well it is doing.
LION rebuilt the ramps on his layout several times, but now it works just fine. Actually, his first ramp must have been five or six percent, maybe more, what does him know about numbers, the locomotive with a heavy passenger train did just fine, and so I figured it was ok. It was not, of course. When I got subway cars, one power car could not take a train up the hill any more, so the hill came out and a helix went in. It was a two track helix, but LION pulled that one out too, to put in a four track helix.
Round and Round it goes, but the trains keep on running.
ROAR
To answer your question, yes, keep it below 2%.
Aye! But what does 2% look like and how do you know you have it? Is it on a curve, how tight is the curve? How much friction will the curve add to the equation. An Engineer will come up with all of the numbers, but the LION did it without numbers. Maybe numbers would have made things easier on the poor LION, but him is not on friendly relations with numbers, him getting a 17 on his algebra final. (Do not even ask about the English Final)
ROAR
Lion, I’m just answering the question that was asked. We have to assume he is comfortable with the calculation. If not, he will probably ask.
KISS is the always best method.
[swg] The thread was TITLED “Measuring Grade”, so the LION assumed that was what he wanted.[(-D]
Besides which, I get to use more verbs this way, to tangle up more nouns and pronouns without ever having to give a straight answer on how to measure the grade in the first place.
One unit of elevation for every x units of travel. This I know, but I know not what number x is given any percentage of grade. And just pointing out, that that number is not really enough since the radius of the curve also is an issue on who can pull what where. But like I said my railroad runs, and no numbers were killed to make this happen. [*-)]
ROAR
[(-D] Rise = 2" Run 100" 2 divided into 100 =.02 x 100 =2, or 2%.
I agree, curves add more RISE into the equation, but at this moment I don’t recall the model railroading “formula”. I remember reading the formula/calculations somewhere but I don’t recall. I should bookmark the good stuff I see but then I would lose it in all of my bookmarks!
the rise 2" divided by the grade .02 =(%) = 100" Run. [swg]
I never did like algebra. [|(]
Have fun
Lee
To the OP, there are many, many threads on this topic. Near the top of the right-hand advertising bar is a slot with ‘Search this site’ beside it. If you type in ‘measuring grades’ or something like that, or a similar approach on any topic related to the hobby, you’ll find enough reading to last you a lifetime.
For grades, they are somewhat involved. You need a easing into the grade from level at the bottom, and you must reverse that easing back to level at the top. Everything between those vertical curves at either end is what does the lion’s share of the work for you. But, it is shorter than what you had envisioned now that you have the necessary eased ends to it. Those vertical eased curves mean what is between them must necessarily be somewhat steeper than you had intended/hoped. The steeper the grade, the longer the vertical curves must be on either end or your locomotives won’t run onto and out of the grades without slipping or derailing. If you have a curve, it complicates things even more.
At the most basic level, you divide the difference in height between the bottom and top of the grade by the length it takes between the two vertical curves. If you have a height change of 4.5 inches, and can only use 10 feet to get there, you have 4.5 inches divided by 10 feet of inches, or 4.5/120. When you do the calculation, you get 0.0375. That is a decimal figure, and to get your percentage out of it, just move the decimal point to the right two spaces. Doing that, it now reads 3.75, forgetting the zeros, and that is the grade…three and three-quarters percent. Very steep. Two inch change in 100 inches is 0.020, or two percent…a much happier situation for the motive power, just like on the real railroads.
Crandell
A tool- if you have a smart phone there are apps that measure incline in degrees and percents. also Micromark has one http://www.micromark.com/miniature-digital-level,9409.html .
Yes, a tool. It is called a level. Prop it up on the top of your track, hold it level until the other end is over the track, and measure the distance from the bottom of the level to the top of the track, and use the algebraic balderdash propagated elsewhere in this post discover what exactly is the percent of incline.
LION says: It does not matter. If you are drafting a layout on paper this is easy, If you already have tracks here and there, then you have fewer choices. But for 2%… Let your LION try to help you, for this is how I do it: I cut risers each one 1/4" taller than the previous one, and for 2% it seems (If my math is correct) they should be four inches apart. 1% would put them 8" apart.
LION has a helix loop 5’ across, him made risers 1/4" taller than the one before, and then spaced them evenly until a train could pass under the first level at the place where the second level reached. Him then put a shim between the riser and the roadbed to give the outside a super elevation. As the helix went up I just used spacers between the layers, and up we went. What the percentage of the grade is I have no idea. It is a four track helix, and so while the loop is 5’ (60" or a 30" radius) the first track is inset 2" so call that a 28" radius, the second track would have a 26" radius, the third track a 24" radius and the third track a 22" radius.
LION tried to work the math on this, but it did not pan out, but the trains seem to work just fine.
ROAR
For what it’s worth, here is what I used to establish a 1.8% grade. I had a 24" ruler with a built in level. I scotched taped a 1/4" drill bit at 90 degrees to the length at 14" from the end. As long as the bubble was centered, my grade was constant. Please don’t ask for the calculations, I don’t have two days! Seriously, it’s not that difficult. Scotchman
For “Close enough to 2%,” my standard grade in the netherworld, I took a 24 inch aluminum level and stuck a piece of half inch square stock to one end with a dab of latex caulk. The spacer goes on the low end, and you just move it along. On curves, I used the level on the chords and let the grade ease slightly.
I’ve been running trains on the rails laid on that subgrade for five years now, so I guess it works.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
Thanks for the help guys. By the way, where did the LION find subway cars. I lived in Chicago all my life and would love to find some N SCALE subway or elevated cars.
ROAR if you have seen any N scale modern type subway or EL cars. At least 70s and up.
Just be lazy AND dumb like me. Just go buy a level that shows the grade in percentage.
I used a 4 foot level with a 1/2 piece of plywood on the lower end it gave me a nice gentle grade on my curves and straight but I am in Ho. Experiment a little and see what works for you. Solder a few pieces of flex track together and run a loco and a few cars up the grade see what works best.
Check with the people at the Museum of Science and Industry (I think that is what they call it). They converted a bunch of Life-Like NYC cars into Chicago cars, but I know no more details than that.
NYCT cars are available in plastic from Walther’s Life-Like and I got all of mine from Trainworld in Brooklyn, but according to their website the do not have any at the moment. When I started buying mine there were $120 for a four car set that included one power car, now they are closer to $240 in the Walthers catalog and about $180 in stores. Brass subway cars can be had for about $450. each, and there are some in O gauge by Lionel and by MTH. (I think MTH lost their license for making some with graffiti on them).
If you are able to build your own cars, then this is the place you should look: http://islandmodelworks.com/
ROAR
I tried a few “level apps” on my wife’s smart phone and found them to be too jumpy, couldn’t seem to get a consistent reading, so my vote is for the MicroMark digital level. I’ve been using one for about 3 years now and have found it very reliable. A few pointers:
The device measures in both degrees and %, but defaults to degrees at startup so you have to push the button to “%” each time you turn it on. If you’re thinking you have more room for the grade than originally planned, you’re on the wrong setting (don’t ask me how I know this!).
Check the pre-set “sea level” reading. Mine was slightly off, so I set up a carpenter’s level as close to level as I can, place the device on it and press the “Relative Zero” button each time I turn it on.
When measuring grades, I place the digital level on a short plastic ruler to get an “average reading” over 6 to 8 inches of track. This factors out the irregularities in my track laying.
Jim
there’s some subway cars in N scale up right now on ebay.