The thread below on mega industries got me thinking about my own motivations for modeling industries. I have from time to time toyed with the idea of focusing my layout on a single primary industry such as a paper mill which would provide large traffic, multiple spots, etc. But my layout plans then drift back the other way, perhaps to industries almost to small for rail traffic and certainly small enough that even in their heyday would only see a car a week or so. My reasoning here has little to do with the railroad side of things and more to do with building interesting wooden structures.
This split personality of structure model building vs operations of moving multiple carloads dominates my planning and ops concepts (a single car branchline train works for me) much more than the operations side of things.
In many ways our layouts are really set in pre WWI, even if the equipment is post WWII or even 21st Century. We generally have small towns, small industries, and short trains that run frequently. That was typical of the time before cars and trucks and paved roads, when people and freight were mostly moved by rail. When lcl was common as well.
Doing one large industry completely would probably require a basement size layout - not only do you need a lot of room for the actual industry, but you’ll need a lot of staging as well.
Personally, I’m modeling a shortline in the 1950’s, but my operations will be more like the 1900’s.
Don’t we all set ourselves up for that? After all, modeling the entire Pennsylvania Railroad in a spare bedroom requires compromise between our multiple personalities. Part of me wants to be a railroad tycoon with an empire a thousand miles across, while another part wants to build a world in a bottle.
I’m a builder, and I enjoy just letting trains run around my layout. I’ve discovered a fundamental limitation - it takes me a month to build 1 square foot of layout. The fundamental benchmark was the 5x12 “Phase 1” of my layout, which took 5 years, and later work has continued at about the same pace. So, as much as I’d like to build a much larger layout, perhaps with a mega-industry or two, I have to understand how long it will take.
Personally, I like smaller industries. They give me variety in my structure-building, and variety in the freight cars that service them. I’ve got what I’d call a large room-sized layout, but I don’t think I’ve really got enough space to handle unit trains of hoppers or fruit-filled reefers, so I’m happier with mixed freights and they smaller industries they can support.
Jim,I don’t think so…I would rather operate then build.
For me there’s no joy in running trains in mindless loops and never has been…My joy comes from switching a yard,passenger terminal or a industrial area.
I would rather have 3-4 large industries with several spots then 2 dozen small industries that looks like a loaded 53’ trailer would overwhelm the receiving area let a long a 50’ boxcar that carries 2 1/2 trailer loads.
Of course we all have different ideas for the way we enjoy the hobby.
Thankfully my love for switching, urban industrial branch lines and short lines saved me from falling face first into that trap…Even my SCL is a urban industrial branch not a division.
I deliberately chose a place where prototype trains were kept short (by heavy grades and short sidings) and there wasn’t much rail-served industry of the “Spot that V&T box at the feed mill,” variety. There is ONE transfer yard where forest products (from logs with the bark still on to finished millwork) are loaded on National Railway cars. There are TWO collieries, one a ‘three couples and a dog’ operation that loads a couple of cars a week, the other a 1000 ton per day plant with lots of auxiliary business (mine supplies, outbound scrap, company store…) There are two JNR freight houses (moderately busy) and a half-dozen belonging to private lines (not so busy.)
The traffic is heavy on the JNR main, almost all of it passengers and freight passing through from somewhere to elsewhere, stopping only to change engines or crews. If the only business was local business there would be about 10 trains a day, even though the roads are either goat trails or two ruts in the mud. If the traffic moved in cars meant for use on the North American rail system that would go down to one mixed train and an RDC3 each way, daily except Sunday.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan as it was in September, 1964 - and isn’t any more)
Since I model the early 1990s, I can’t justify any one-boxcar industries. The largest industry on the layout is the Peace River Paper Mill, which has five spurs and 8 spots, plus its own switcher. By itself it can keep one operator busy during a session. Plus, it was fun to scratchbuild.
On my short line industrial, agricultural layout in N-scale, an Nscale mile is equal to a real world mile. No distance compression is used, except for the staging which is miles some where off the layout.
The smallest industry I have can take 3 cars and the largest 20.
Nothing looks worse then a building shipping by rail that is smaller than the car being shipped. It is ludicrous to populate a rr with buildings half the size of houses. Over the years my radii and buildings have all gotten bigger and look far better. Fewer more prototypical buildings make sense to me.
Yeah, that’s an issue. I’ve tried to keep my buildings, track serving them, and traffic levels to look realistic. It helps that a lot of my layout is narrowgauge, so easier to pull that off.
But then you can get to large buildings that look like they can do the work it takes to keep those cars rolling. Even as large buildings, they’re still supposed to be dominated by the mountains. And that’s hard to do, it’s always something, dontcha know?[;)]
Modeling industries that can generate rail traffic normally require a larger industry. My zinc mine and Swift packing both can generate at least 3 cars/day. Most of my other industries are on the ‘recieiving’ end - they get a car or 2 over a 6 day operating schedule. This works well for a 50’s era layout…
If I were to model something contemparary, I would be hard pressed to have traffic generating industries - They just seem to generate way to many cars/day for a typical layout. I know of one industry that ships sunflower seeds in bulk(covered hopper) and bagged(box cars) from South Dakota. ‘Frac Sand’ is something that can be done in small cuts - Many times it goes to a washing/sizing operation where it is then loaded on unit trains for final shipment. Rock/ballast operations can ship in small cuts as well. Elevators are usually large and ship large blocks of grain hoppers, or unit trains of grain from ‘shuttle’ elevators.
And many of the ‘receiving’ type industries that would only get a single car are sort of lean. In the farmland, we see a tank car of anhydrous and a car of potash for fertilizer in the spring. We do not see box cars of bagged feed very often - they go by truck. tank cars of propane or heating oil are common, and flat cars of farm machinery are common. Center beam cars with wrapped lumber many times are in single shipments.
Some industries like flour mills receive grain via covered hoppers, and may ship flour in Airslide or P/D covered hoppers - These again tend to be large structures.
Like several folks who’ve answered, my layout is a branchline to small switching town. In my case, I let the desire to build interesting structures dictate the era and location. The SR branchline that is my primary inspiration (I proto-freelance) typically ran 2-4 car trains six days a week up to the early 70s. And while the south had many large cotton mills that required significant service, during that period small businesses still received by rail, though granted in one car lots.
But either way, it does give me an excuse to build those interesting wooden and corrogated metal buildings that once were everywhere in the south.
because of space restrictions to the layout size real estate will be tight, but I’ve got an excuse for why my industries will be small compared to basement empires industries. by the 60’s trucks and cars were more common so rail traffic was not as plentiful, but two industries I have planned will have their items shipped in by truck and shipped out by rail. Apples are common in Washington so orchards are close to the road which delivers it to rail. The other industry will be a general freight one, so now I can have a shared concrete dock and team track, which depending on the day of the week cars will be swapped out.
You can blame that thought on a article I read in Trains Magazine many years ago…I can still recall the photo of GN Geep 9s pulling a long string of sugar beet cars and that caught my fancy.
Well, since I freelance. I have the license to build whatevwer. But, since my layout is supposed to be set in northwestern Ohio, I kind of have to go with the industries that would logically be in the area, such as grain elevators, auto parts manufacturers and such. I try not to build rail-served industrial structures that look I have a string of boxcars spotted next to a wood shed. As I have a small layout, forced perspective, using building flats along the backdrop helps with the illusion of size of an industry. I also build what I call "half structures, where some of the structure protrudes from the backdrop, the rest is a flat. This conserves on space, yet gives the illusion of an industry that is much larger than it actually is. I’ve found that I need to compromise as well. Obviously, my 70’s era layout cannot accommodate 89 foot “Trailer Train” intermodal flat cars; 60 foot cars are the absolute limit with 24 inch radius curves on this branchline “main”.
There are always two ploys suggested (and sometimes included in track plans) by John Armstrong:
Two tracks curve behind a fairly high hill. Behind the ridgeline, a tall smokestack and a tall industrial water tank, both lettered (fillintheblank) to indicate the huge industry (or industrial park) that really isn’t there.
A track right along the fascia, with loading/unloading facilities. Where’s the huge industrial structure? Virtual, on the aisle side of the fascia. You’re standing in it.
One variant on the second item on a club I once belonged to. Bella DiBoll Cosmetics was a BIG structure, three stories high and big enough to have five loading doors, right on the fascia line. The aisle side was the control panel for that zone. I intend to use that trick at Tomikawa when I build the permanent panel - in the division office building, the biggest structure in town.
I have an industry that isn’t there–another paper mill. It is a cut out of a Walther’s paper mill from an ad and glued to a backdrop photo. Cars are dropped off for the Peace River Northern shortline, which takes them to the mill (a staging track hidden behind a hill). More at http://cprailmmsub.blogspot.ca/2009/09/model-industry-that-isnt-there.html
On the club layout I belong to,I have built a scrap yard. It has a spur to serve it. The way it usually operates is "Begining of session-take Yard Tank Locomotive from Shire Oaks (staging yard/plus actual yard to build and disassmble)couple to empty gondols and go to Scrap yard to pick up loaded gondolas (metal cubes). Drop off empty gondolas at nearby siding. Take loaded gondolas and place on empty siding. couple to loaded gondolas. Take scrap to shire Oaks and drop off before inbound yard. Check Shire Oaks for loaded scrap cars(Junk, wrecked automobiles, misc stuff,etc) and drop off at the Scrap yard. Repeat at least twice per session.
