I am thinking of adding a strip mine to my layout set in Northern Minnesota. I found some photos on operations at these mines in the 1940s and 1950s and they show large excavators dumping iron ore into side dump cars pushed by steam engines and diesel switchers. These trains then headed to a crusher and/or processing plant where the ore, after processing, was shifted to iron ore cars for rail movement to the docks at Duluth, etc. Does anyone know the answers to these questions:
Would the trains in the mine itself be narrow gauge or standard gauge?
Were side dump cars used exclusively or were regular ore cars also used in the mines?
Would the engines used in the mine be owned by the mine or the railroad?
When did trucks displace trains for in-mine operations?
What off-the-shelf kits or models would be appropriate for both the trains in the mine and the excavators (the only ones I can find for the latter are some Kibri kits that are based on European equipment)?
Anyway, that’s a lot of questions but any and all information is much appreciated. If someone could recommend a book that would also be great. Most of the information I have comes from the Motorbooks’ volume on the DM&IR. Thanks.
Iron ore is heavy so narrow gauge could have been used but I doubt it due to my answer to #2
ore as mined needs to be crushed and concentrated. I would expect large pieces to get hung up in the bottom doors of ore cars making tjem and hoppers not a good choice.
Suspect mine engines were owned by the mine. Erie Mining comes to mind.
Don’t know
What scale? I believe there is a Difco side dump car available in HO. Mines also used draglines. Big buckets on shovels with cables that were dragged through the ore
I’m pretty certain the DM&IR was standard guage because during World War II in the wintertime some of their large articulated steam engines were sent to Colorado and were used by the D&RGW to relieve that road’s motive power shortage on the Royal Gorge and Tennessee Pass route to haul wartime traffic. I’m pretty sure they would have been towed over other railroads between Minnesota and Colorado. and could not have been towed over those lines if they were narrow gauge.
1 - All the trains in the mines were standard gauge(mining company) from what I saw in the 50’s.
2 - Side dumps were used to move the ore to a central collection/crusher point. The 22’ ore cars were railroad owned and loaded to make ore trains at that point.
3 - They were mining company owned engines/cars.
4 - The large ‘haul’ trucks were in force by the 50’s, but a lot of the haul to the crusher was still done with rail.
5 - Any of the big Terex or Euclid trucks for haul, just be carefull of the era. The shove’s were electric in the 50’s from watching operation at the big Hull-Rust pit.
BTW, I guess they were ‘Strip’ Mines, but at 2 by 3 miles in size and over 500’ deep, ore mines are really large ‘holes’…
Well first, it’s called an “open pit” not a strip mine. [:)]
Standard gauge. Some mining companies used narrow gauge equipment for stripping - removing the dirt ‘overburden’ before mining began, small cars running on very light temporary trackage. Iron ore is too heavy to be hauled by narrow gauge cars, it wouldn’t be economical. Besides, Minnesota outlawed narrow gauge common carrier railroads in 1911.
Depends on the ore. If the ore needed cleaning or processing, it would be loaded into side-dump ore cars in the mine pit, and then taken to the crusher / beneficiator for processing. After, it would be loaded into mainline railroad ore cars. (Often the side-dump cars went on an elevated track and dumped down into the processing building, then railroad ore cars were loaded by chutes beside the building.)
However, if the ore was pure enough, the railroad ore jennies could be taken directly into the pit and loaded with ore. For both railroad ore cars or side-dump cars, a typical ore pit train would be an engine and 8-12 cars.
The pit engines were owned by the mining company railroad, like Oliver Mining Company. BTW on the Mesabi Range, US Steel-owned mining companies used the Missabe Road to haul their ore to the docks, since US Steel owned the DM&IR too. Other mines used the Great Northern.
Trucks started to be used in the 1920’s, I think the last ore pit rail lines ended around 1965-70 (??) Actually, many companies used trucks to haul ore to a conveyor, which brought the raw ore out of the pit.
Well the Walthers side-dump cars and Minnesota ore jennies are good. (The MDC ore cars are based on Upper Michigan prototypes.) Not sure about things like trucks, steamshovels etc. except they were BIG. BTW many steam shovels in the steam era used in the pits were originally built for the Panama Canal project.
Do a search on Franklin King, his books “The Missabe Road” and "Locomotives
Hi Brad: In the early days they did use narrow gauge for hauling over burden but stopped because of the amounts needed to be moved.
There are no models of the 1940s to 1950s haul trucks that I’ve been able to find. Mack, International, and Euclid made haul trucks. The shovels were all electric by the 50s. The only HO model of a shovel I’ve seen was by Ertil a few years ago and it was a modern P&H. they were very expensive and when I got the cash for one they were gone. I have a model of a shovel by Lionel in O scale that is about the right size. I’ll have to scratch a new house for it and maybe have to make a few other changes. For information on the heavy equipment used in mining check into the Historical Construction Equipment Assciation. They have a great magazine that is well worth the price of joining. Also try the magazine " Classic Plant and Machinery. It’s from England and I get it at Tractor Supply. Drop me an Email if you want and I’ll try and help you out.
Brad- one of the best sources I came across for seeing how ore mines are operated is Pentrex Videos. I have a couple of shows about mining, one in Canada and the other in the UP of Michigan. Both are great videos, and the Michigan episode has LS&I, Erie and a few other mines where they filmed. If you can get a copy- (Pentrex still sells them and has a good website) , or you might give e-bay a try, they might just give you what you need. They show the trains and the mining equipment, including the loading areas.
P.S.- Hope you like ALCo engines, cause they use 'em alot!
There are numerous videos/DVD’s on the Missabe Road, at least 8-10 that are either all DMIR or have sections on them, going back to the 1940’s in some cases. There’s also a three-volume set on the Great Northern that features a lot of iron ore operations, that is available now on one DVD I think. (I’m not at home so can’t give you specific title names etc.) It features home movies of a GN employee. There’s also a video out there that was originally a film made for schools that features the GN in showing how iron ore is mined and shipped…the video release was something like “Great Northern Iron Ore Railroading, 1950”(??)
The King books were reissued a few years ago in softcover, and should be available for around $20-30.
I’m not sure if this is the one you have, but MBI’s “Duluth Missabe and Iron Range” by John Leopard is a good book, many of your questions are answered there.
Morning Sun’s “Duluth Missabe and Iron Range Railway - In Color” by David C. Schauer has a lot of good pics. BTW although the Missabe dieselized late, in the fifties they leased diesels from the Great Northern, B&LE, and Union RR’s, so had quite a colorful collection.
Not a Missabe book per se, but “One Man’s Locomotives” by Vernon L. Smith has some good information on iron ore mining in the steam days. Smith was born on the Cuyuna Range, and in the 1920’s-30’s worked for iron mining railroads on the Mesabi Range. He gives a lot of info about the day-to-day operations of a mining company railroad, running cars down into the pit, the steamshovels etc.
For video/DVD, the recent DVD “DM&IR Steam Variety” on GSVP (Greg Scholl Video Productions) is good. It features the color movies of Perry and Jim Becker (of “Becker’s Hobbies” Hobby Shop in Minnesota) from 1947 to 1962, which starts with steam operations in an open pit mine.
The GN video I was talking about is “Great Northern - Iron Ore Mining 1950” from Gandy Dancer.
For more recent stuff, any of the several “Plets Express” videos on the Missabe or other ore haulers (like “Taconite Trains of Minnesota” or “Vintage Twin Ports”) are very good too.
mark- I think wjs was referring to US light rail NG, not the ones built with heavy rail and good trackwork. Are there any NG ore haulers in the land down under? Early industrial (logging, mining, etc) US narrow gauge was known for it’s cost cutting design, light rail and track laid flat on the ground. Some of the W Virginia loggers even eschewed bridges over shallow creeks, just forded them.
And if any one wants to see one of the types mark is referring to, check out any information on the US Gypsum operation in California (I think) . They have some neat NG Alco’s rolling long trains of gypsum- also fairly heavy- around the desert. Again, Pentrex has a video with them on it, Those Amazing Alcos Vol 3.
Last I checked Minnesota was still in the United States?? [swg]
But ya, narrow gauge in the US was usually built to conquer mountains with steep grades and tight curves, hauling tiny cars on spindly track. Iron ore is heavy - those 24’ ore cars hold 70 tons…more than a 50’ steel boxcar. I suppose you could haul iron ore on a narrow gauge railroad, and just run more cars/more loads, if your track and cars were built strong enough - but if you were doing that, why not just build it standard gauge?? I’m sure there are narrow gauge railroads in the world hauling iron ore, but I doubt they’re doing it in conjunction with a standard gauge railroad (i.e., the whole system is narrow gauge) and I doubt they’re hauling anything like the amount of ore that was brought out of the Mesabi Range.
For awhile in the 60s and early 70s the White pass RR hauled Bauxite to Skagway. A much lighter ore wouldn’t you say. Not too heavy for narrow gauge.[:D]
You’re apparently unaware of an outstanding exception to your claim that narrow gauge cars were not capable of carrying of iron ore: the 3-foot-gauge “Tweetsie.” The ET&WNC hauled ironore from the Cranberry mines, pig iron from the local forge, and lumber from the forests of western North Carolina.
Please specify which Mines this was done in. I am unaware of any Narrow gauge Railroad equipment that was used in the Iron Ore Mining region of Minnesota. That is not to say it didnt happen, I would like to know which mine’s however since ive never heard of its use. I know it was used in the copper mines of Michigan.
Narrow gauge railroading was a rarity in Minnesota…an extreme rarity compared to other midwest states. There were a few private enterprise Logging companies that used narrow gauge ( the most commonly known out of Brainerd,MN that ran up towards Nisswa),but even the use of narrow gauge in the timber industry was very rare. 2-6-0 & 2-8-0’s with flatcars were the common logging methods and Mining Engines were big monsters capable of getting the empties back up the grade from the Lake superior shore, even back to the turn of the century the DMN & D&IR had large Locomotives and rail was changed several times to accomodate these beheamoths and the growing capacity ore cars.
Having been Born In Proctor,MN Home of the DM&IR I could talk the Mesabi all day, But I would like to hear more about Which Mines used Narrow gauge Railroad Equipment as I am completly unaware of this ever being the case.
Light rail Was used with Light locomotives but standard gauge, not narrow gauge.
Just to clarify a little…as far as I know, narrow gauge trains were never used to haul iron ore in Minnesota. However I’ve seen pictures (I think in one of the Frank King books, although it might have been somewhere else) of a temporary narrow-gauge line being used to remove the dirt from an area that was going to be mined. This was kinda like the narrow gauge lines tracks sometimes put in to reach a construction site, like a tunnel or something - small cars, a small loco, and spindly track (probably unballasted and made in sections to be moved around as needed). I believe the trains were owned by the contractor hired to strip the overburden (dirt), not a “real” railroad like the Missabe or GN.
BTW the Milwaukee Road did run several narrowgauge lines in southeastern Minnesota (running from the Mississippi River west) from about 1880-1903, similar to the 3’ gauge lines they ran in Iowa into the 1930’s (also running west from the river). By the time MN outlawed common carrier narrow gauge lines (1911 IIRC) the 3’ lines had been abandoned or converted to standard gauge, but private companies could still use them for construction or in industrial plants etc.
Just a follow-up, both King books and the V.Smith book contained pics of narrow-gauge equipment on the range. Apparently there were at least 4-5 mining companies that used tiny 3’ gauge equipment (usually 0-4-0 tank engines like a Porter 10 ton engine, with small 4 wheel cars) to remove the ‘overburden’ from the areas to be mined. (This was sometimes done during the winter, so they could have the mine ready to start producing ore when the shipping season on Lake Superior came again in the spring.) This practice seems to have ended by the Depression - in fact the pics that Vernon Smith took in the late twenties showed engines that appeared to be retired and perhaps due to be scrapped.
It might be an interesting thing to model, although not much variety. The ‘overburden’ of dirt over the iron ore could be 6’ to 90’ in depth, so I imagine some operations may have been fairly extensive.
Yes, plenty. There were 2’, 2’6" and 3’6" gauge ore hauling lines here over the years. BHP, or whatever they call themselves these days, still run a 3’6" gauge iron ore line at Whyalla in South Australia.