I have put my trains on hold for the last ten years. I would like change all my rollong stock to metal wheels what would be a good wheel to use?
Hi,
This is an oft asked question. Typically, the consensus is to go with Intermountain - 33 inch for freight, 36 inch for passenger (the vast majority of the time).
The replacement of wheelsets is expensive, but I’ve found it to be very worthwhile, right next to replacing couplers with KaDees.
Suggestion… Go on Ebay and buy in bulk. You will definitely save money!
Proto 2000 or Intermountain are my preferred brands, but which ones you use or need is going to depend more on the brands of rolling stock you have, because many of the older models cannot be easily converted and there is no “one size fits all” wheelset.
I typically default to Kadee and have been very satisfied. Is there a reason(s) why you believe Intermountain is the consensus preference?
( I did do a search for “Kadee vs. Intermountain” before posting this question but received so many irrelevant hits I gave up just before passing out from exhaustion.)
Rick Krall
Hi,
I’m not knocking any other brand of wheelsets. I chose Intermountain after reviewing threads on this forum years ago, where the majority of folks had Intermountain and were happy with them.
So I tried them out, and liked them, and bought in bulk to outfit almost 200 freight cars and 22 passenger cars. That was in the mid 2000s, and they have worked like a charm.
Would KDs or others work as well or better? I really don’t know. But I do know that the IMs work for me.
I don’t stop at half measures - with only very rare exception, I replace the entire truck with sprung trucks from Kadee before the car hits the layout. Excellent rolling quality, and the cars stick to the track like they were glued there!
Can’t argue with replacing the entire trucks with KaDee. KaDee makes terrific products.
That being said, the cost of 4 IM wheelsets is a little bit easier on the pocketbook than two KD trucks.
Multiply that difference times 222 (in my case), and it is significant.
I favor Intermountain and P2K as replacement wheels but,I recently bought a bulk pack of Atlas wheel sets for testing and so far they are edging out the P2K wheels as far as rollability…
However…
If I was to replace the trucks I would use the newer roller bearing trucks with metal wheels from Athearn or use the Atlas trucks. I find both brands are extremely free rolling.
P2K or IM wheels work fine and can be purchased in bulk, either on EBay or through the specific websites of online stores.
Don’t forget the truck tuning tool, which makes a huge difference in how the axle rotates in the trucks!!!
Len S
Some years back when I was in Indiana I was with a round robin group. One of the guys (who incidently is a book vendor who comes to most of the Timonium shows, center area) equipped a lot of his cars with KD wheel sets and ran some long trains on a layout in his coffee shop he ran. The train seemed to have a lot of drag on it. Later, he removed those KD wheel sets and replaced them with a different brand, Jaybee (IIRC) with metal axles instead of plastic axles (which KD’s had). The difference was major, the cars rans had much less drag on them in a long string.
I don’t know what others experiece has been or if they have tried a controlled experiment like my friend Chuck in Bloomington, but that always made a big impression upon me, and since then I’ve tried to find wheel sets from Proto 2000 or other steel axle equipped brands.
I use KD couplers as a standard on my layout. However, I am not fond of their wheelsets, to the point of replacing them on any cars that have them. I prefer IM sets. That also is a standard on MY layout. I buy in bulk. 100 sets for $55 + shipping from Becker’s Model Railroad Supply in New Brighton, MN.I’ve changed out 237 cars.
Hope that helps.
Terry in NW Wisconsin
What mobileman said.
Kadee wheel sets have a very soft engineering plastic axle(for non-magnetic qualities). The axle end is ‘rounded’. When new, a metal Kadee truck with their wheels will roll very good. After time, the cast metal journal in the truck side frame will chew up the axle end and the rolling qualities will get worse. Cleaning the journal and re-lubing with Kadee ‘Greas’em’ will not fix the damage. Also the blackening on the wheel treads collects ‘crud’. At one time(early 70’s), all of my rolling stock had Kadee wheels. Most of the cars were Athearn/MDC type freight cars.
Kadee has recently dropped their sprung metal trucks, and replaced them with a 2-piece plastic truck made out of a plastic that is loaded with powdered metal. These trucks are very nice(and have the weight low where it is needed). They are NOT ‘sprung’. I suspect that the rolling qualities will not suffer over time.
Myself, I use I-M wheels as they can be bought in ‘bulk packs’ at very good prices. The 12 count ‘blister’ packs are just too expensive. Buying I-M in bulk, it cost me about $2.40/car to equip them with metal wheels. I buy the 100 count ‘bulk packs’ on-line for around $60/box. The MSRP is about $75/box currently.
I also have lots of cars with P2K wheels. Back when they were Life-Like, MB Klein had them for something like $3.99/blister pack - Now Walthers sells them for at least $12/blister pack. They also have engineering plastic axle ends, but they are ‘pointed’ and seem to be a harder engineering plastic.
For special install issues, ReBoxx has various axle length wheel sets - They appear very similar to the I-M wheels.
As for wheel sizes, use 33" for freight cars with a load capacity of 70 tons or under. Use the 36" wheels for your ty
I would emphasize using the MicroMark truck tuner tool. Also, I highly recommend getting a digital micrometer (less than $25) from MicroMark or other to measure axle length, original and new, so you can interpret rolling results. And test roll your original truck, then after tuning and changing the wheelsets. I found, on the freight cars I’ve converted so far, that some did much better with the 33" IM (slightly shorter might be the reason) axle than the slightly longer P2Ks. I measure the original and new axles as info, but choose mostly on rolling results (my layout has a nice 2% test grade and rollout section). There’s data on the Reboxx site that gives original and recommended (of theirs) axle lenghts, but I don’t use that much.
http://www.reboxx.com/wheelsets.htm
So I use the P2Ks sometimes (I like the ribbed back type for older cars) but I find that the IMs do better on many of my cars (predominantly Accurail & Bowser kits so far). I bought the 100 pack of IMs and some of the P2K in both smooth back and ribbed back styles. So I can add what I like from those for a particular car.
Jim mentioned my favorite wheel sets. ReBoxx.
Typically 30, 50 or 70 ton freight cars will have 33 inch wheels, while ~90 ton or more will be 36 inch.
Thee are issues with both the Kadee and P2K wheelsets: The Kadee wheels are made of sintered metal, while the axles are an “engineering” plastic (think Delrin or equivalent). The wheels are slightly porous, and build up “crud” quickly. The axles wear faster and roll worse over time.
The P2K sets have the same problem with the axles. I think their wheels are cast.
With both, there is the issue of having all one axle length, which can lead to coupling problems and derailments.
Reboxx, OTOH, has many different axle lengths. Their wheels and axles are turned nickle silver, and the axles are shouldered, which eliminates any issues with wheel gauge. Their wheels are the narrower Code 88 (that is .088" tread), rather than the usual Code 110, They look better when viewed from the end of the car, especially cars like hoppers and tanks. I have changed all of my freight cars (around 110 or so) to the Reboxx wheels, and the trucks to sprung types. Most of my trucks are metal sprung trucks, that were first made in the 1950s and 1960s. They work very well with the Reboxx wheels.
I’m sorry to hear that Kadee is eliminating sprung trucks. They are one of the few mfrs. left who make them.
Good luck…
I recently replaced wheels on around 60 cars with Proto 2000 metal wheels. All went fine. I didn’t even have to use the MicroMark truck tuner tool once. I replaced the trucks on 4 cars because they were cheap and never ran well with whatever king of wheels I used.
I’ve tried metal wheels from IM, P2K, Kadee, Atlas, Athearn, etc. on my freight cars, and I can honestly say the best ones have metal axles and machined wheels. It’s too easy to damage the fine point on a plastic axle, and cast wheels tend to be noisier and build up dirt faster. Kadee and P2K are cast wheels with plastic axles, so I don’t use them anymore unless they’re included with the car. Atlas and Athearn both have machined wheels, but they can come with either plastic or metal axles (I think current Athearn is all metal). IM has had the most consistent product and quality with metal axles and machined wheels, so I stick with them. Never had a problem with Intermountain to this day![:D]
So, I’ve read the posts, not only here but in so many other threads, and I was sold! I bought a bulk pack (100) of IM’s 33", as well as a Micro Mark truck tuner, and have so far changed about 20 of a 25 car consists wheels. Some already had metal, and one or two retained plastic. These retained plastic because apparantly, metal wheels and metal trucks don’t play too well together, at least on my DC layout.
During the process, I found several of my trucks have most likely been done before as the tuner would spin freely in them, and I mean spin- I’ve picked up a bunch of my stock used. Some surprised me as I could feel the tuner cutting with every spin, lot’s of flash! I had cars that rolled okay, and some that rolled like brakes were dragging, and afterwards everything rolls soooo nice!!! Running away on the slightest grade!
Even so, with all this, I did not expect to have to add another loco to my double-headed setup to pull the consist up the grade! My Mikado and 0-8-0 yard goat spun wheels halfway up the grade, not stalling, but spinning, forcing the addition of the second available yard goat! So, what I gained in rollability, I geuss I lost in added weight of the metal vs. plastic! That was something I was not figuring on!
Overall, I am pleased with the results and look forward to less track cleaning. Is my metal truck/metal wheels issue (causing shorting) normal?
Thanks,
Duane