I have several kits to build and would like to replace the plastic wheels with metal. I have seen a few brands, Kadee, InterMountain, Tangent and would like some feedback on which may be a good choice. I see different wheel codes are available, 88, 110. I am operating on Atlas code 83 track with Peco turnouts. Thanks.
Kadee and call them and ask which wheels you need. Sam the answer Man is a great resource.
Exact rail has them too. Atlas too. It depends partly on era. Tangent, exactrail, and intermountain are more 60s foward. Kadee is more 20s to 60s. There is also the question of what size wheels go on each car. 33 or 36 or 28 inch dia. As for .80 to .110. That is tread width. And more of a visual appearence. Both have pros and cons. Axle length and the truck manufacture can have compatability issues. That is a start, others should be able to fill in the gaps better
Wolfie
When talking about replacement wheelsets, Reboxx is a company that should never be excluded. They make wheelsets with an assortment of axle lengths, for a perfect fit.
Here’s the first page of their 33" wheel replacement chart:
I recommend going to:
and learning more.
Ed
The code for wheels refers to wheel width (while for track code refers to track height); the “standard” HO wheel width is the 110 - that width meets NMRA standards and should operate on and be consistent with commercial track that meets NMRA standards which I assume your Code 83 track does.
Code 88 wheels are sometimes called “semi-scale” - the wheels are thinner than NMRA standards but not quite as thin as genuine scale width would be. The flangers are also a bit deeper than actual scale. But Code 88 wheels look more to scale and photograph very well. They are growing in popularity.
The NMRA compliance and standards experts warn that Code 88 wheels, which are narrower than NMRA standards, can pose problems on turnouts, crossings and other track work that is within NMRA standards tolerances, and they cite measurements chapter and verse that indicate that, yeah, issues exist or can exist. But many guys use Code 88 wheels and regular commercial track and report no problems. But many commercial turnouts do not meet NMRA standards either so it is possible that some combination of Code 88 wheel and your track could be incompatible. Cars with code 88 wheels can also be a bit tricker to put on the track by hand.
I say … why not try some on a car or two?
There are also exact scale wheels made, I think by North West Short Line and maybe others. Both width and flanges are exactly to scale. It is quite a difference in appearance! That really does call for track
For couplers I totally agree, but for wheel sets, maybe not.
Check out what Dave has to say:
Also, Kadee’s wheels are reportedly sintered metal which may be more likely to pick up dirt.
Dave, Thanks for the comprehensive information/response. How do Walthers Proto wheelsets compare? Thanks. Doug
I assume the OP is HO scale, of course.
But for any N-scalers wanting to glean information from this thread: make sure the axle length of the replacement wheel set matches the car.
I don’t know if this applies to the HOers.
Robert
Why?
I agree that those wheels look better, Dave, but they only emphasise the overly-wide sideframes on the majority of the trucks available.
These look really good, but require scale-width trucks (Proto-87) to avoid the issue noted above.
Axle length (and axle-tip profile) is one of the most crucial factors for wheels, original or replacement, whether plastic or metal, as it’s the interface between the axle ends and the pockets in the sideframes in which they’re seated that determines rolling qualities.
Definitely! Even prototype wheels right from the manufacturer are rust-covered. On modern cars with roller bearings, the treads are polished through use, while the wheel faces, backs, and axles remain rust-coloured, and, of course, with some accumulation of dirt.
If you’re modelling an era where solid bearings were in use, the wheel faces usually became covered in oil from the journal boxe
Agree with Onewolf, nice informative info summary on wheels.
I believe Walthers Proto wheels come on all their RTR rolling stock now for the past several years. I haven’t looked at them critically but they seem fine.
Re: Code 88 wheels… I haven’t kept track but some RTR cars come with code 88 wheels out of the box. As I recall, some Genesis cars were offered that way for example. I can’t recall if they are standard on ExactRail models or not.
I give away Kadee wheelsets. Love the couplers, though! I just don’t care for the soft plastic axle or whatever it is.
Intermountain on all my 350+ freight cars. A mix of cd110 and 88. I haven’t noticed a problem.
I highly second the truck tuner!! Get it and use it.
Terry
I started my change over from plastic to metal with P2K wheelsets and mid stream I changed to Intermountain simply because they out rolled my P2K wheels.
I decided to try code 110 33" Intermountain and Proto 2000 for my 40’ (mostly) freight cars. I recommend a digital caliper ($25 or less, often cheap at HF) so you can measure the original axle length and then compare.
Try your original truck w/wheelsets on a downslope and then compare after installing the replacements. Just check for good rolling. You will typically see a nice improvement.
I paid attention to the Reboxx site awhile, looking at the listings of original axle lengths and their recommended (close) substitutes. But when I did my replacements and testing, I found that often somewhat shorter axle lengths worked well, making close length matching more of a theoretical issue in that case. (I can see where too long an axle could cause an issue).
I settled on IM 33" as my go-to wheelsets. I obtained some Proto 2000 with the old fashioned slotted wheel back slots (I forget the terminology) for older vintage cars. Not that I really notice. To me, both of these are fine. I do buy the IM in the 100 pack, maybe $0.65 per axle last time.
I did not try the Kadees, partly because I understood that the wheel treads were scintered metal (vs. turned), a potential contributor to dirt adhesion. Maybe just a theoretical issue, and perhaps not even how they are now made.
I have not painted the face of my wheels, though I should. It’s not yet on my to-do list, so that will not be soon.
Paul, have not asked Kadee to verify this but my impression is that Kadee wheelsets are now made of a much finer sinter material than in decades past, and they are less inclined to become dirt magnets. On the other hand, the slight curve in the axle tip (instead of a straight cone) means they work best in Kadee trucks. Kadee often makes incremental and unpublicized improvements in its products.
If you let the Kadee blackening wear off in regular operation you get a narrow ring of silver on the wheel tread that looks close in size to a prototype wheel. The part that remains black is not as visible and the wheel looks narrower than it really is. This gives a better appearance without the problems that code 88 wheels can cause on certain switches.
I’ve often thought to run a string of cars continously in a loop to see how long it would take to wear the blackening off but I haven’t done it.
It may be possible to make something to protect the outer edge of the wheel from the Dremel wire brush and shine them up quickly.
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I completely agree on both points. I met Sam at the National Train Show last year. He is one great guy.
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10% of my freight cars are made by Kadee. 98% of my freight cars ride on Kadee trucks, 100% of my freight cars ride on Kadee wheels. 100% of my entire fleet has Kadee couplers.
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There is no substitute.
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My best formula is Shinohara (Walthers) code 83 turnouts, Tortoise switch motors, Atlas code 83 track, Kadee Couplers, Kadee trucks with code 110 wheels.
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I dream of a world where Kadee also manufactures code 83 power routing DCC friendly turnouts and track. If anyone can make it perfect, Kadee can.
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These are the parts that really matter. They are the mechanical components of your layout. Everything above the truck is just eye candy really. Never scrimp on the track, trucks, couplers, and wheels.
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Compromise elsewhere.
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-Kevin
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I’ve used only P2K wheels - mainly because prior to Walthers, a 12 pack could be had from MB Klein (Modeltrainstuff) for $3.99. A fraction of the price of other brands. Going forward, I will probably use Intermountain - we get a decent deal on 100 packs through the club. Plus they are easier to add resistors to for block detection. The P2K ones, with their plastic axles, are a bit more complicated and use more of the conductive silver paint - which isn’t cheap. Very few of my cars don’t fit the P2K wheels - most are Accurail, Bowser, or Athearn. A few that probably don’t fit the axle length of P2K wheelsets already come with metal wheels - Kadee cars, Branchline kits, and of course P2K kits already have P2K wheels. I have ONE caboose that has Reboxx wheels because it has a very odd axle lenth - a Life Like (not P2K) caboose.
–Randy
A few thoughts and opinions, in no particular order:
REBOXX - only makes code 88 wheels and their axle lengths for Kadee sprung trucks are incorrect.
I use mostly sprung metal trucks from Kadee, refitted with Intermountain code 110 metal wheels. They roll smooth, track well, add weight down low. AND, they have a lower rolling resistance than most any plastic rigid truck/wheel combination, even after using the axle reamer. I did extensive testing of this years ago.
The sprung feature adds equalization, which I believe is important, others will disagree. But it keeps all the wheels on the rails all the time…
I will not use code 88 wheels. In my view it just trades the wheel appearance for the big gap of the sideframes that are too wide. While maybe out of scale, the long standing industry/NMRA standard 110 wheel and sideframe standards appear well proportioned. Can’t fix one without fixing both in my view.
And, code 88 wheels are not as smooth thru my Atlas Custom Line turnouts, which are reasonably close to NMRA standards, and a few scratch built special turnouts which are even closer to NMRA standards.
Correct axle length is important, and there are lots of quality metal wheel sets from various manufacturers in various axle lengths to fit most any truck you need a wheels for.
I’m not a big fan of the Kadee wheel set for several reasons - the soft “iron” wheels with the black coating as others have commented on and the soft plastic axle.
I do like their new HGC trucks for some applications.
I don’t worry about details like the cooling fins of old style cast wheels, or the fact that the working springs are too “thin”.
I consider preformance first in those areas. Anyway, you can’t see all that when the trains are moving…
I do install the Kadee brake shoes on many other brands of trucks.
Sheldon
Rapido tests their wheel sets by giving them a good hard spin. They are supposed to spin for 20 seconds! There is a club in California (can’t remember the name) that uses the same standard.
I’m lucky if I can get my wheel sets to rotate for 10 - 15 seconds but my cars seem to perform well on the club’s portable layout. I’ve only tried to run 10 - 12 cars in a train though. Longer trains would obviously benefit from freer rolling wheels.
Dave
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I had this old Kadee truck on my desk when I read you post, so I picked it up and gave it a spin. It spun for 11 seconds.
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-Kevin
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