Metra train blocked by CN and Barrington is still NIMBY

Some comments:

  1. Not a “foamer” (and those are quotation marks, not parentheses, Zug). Just someone who has had a life-long interest in railroading.

  2. I don’t hate CN or dislike railroaders either. I guess any comments that are critical of either the railroads or their employees wound your fragile egos and thus can’t be tolerated. Could it be because you railroaders don’t like your jobs and employers?

  3. Knuckles break or get pulled - obviously. But maybe the technology could be improved? After all, you aren’t using whatever brake systems were current when this knuckle coupler design was first used.

  4. Bucyrus nailed it. Why did it take two plus hours to fix the problem and get moving?

  5. Perhaps the railroads, like the airlines, need to check critical components for metal fatigue with imaging that reveals internal flaws. Sure, it costs time and money, but there is some duty to employees and the public for prevention.

Until you find a way to completely eliminate all forms of slack and slack action, knuckles will break and drawbars will get pulled.

Not knowing the length of the train, you have to determine whether it’s a broken air hose or a broken knuckle that caused the problem. Once that’s been established, you have to carry the replacement knuckle (not a light item) over uneven footing to a location that might be near the rear of the train, make the changeover, walk back to the locomotive, pump up the air, and go. Two hours does not seem too unreasonable.

Ultrasonic testing of knuckles, knuckle pins, drawbars, etc. may be possible; but I’m not that sure that it’s practical.

Yep. Here’s how I anticipate it pretty much happened:

  1. Train breaks apart and goes into emergency. Crew says favorite unprintable epithets, prays it all stays on the track, and notifies Dispatcher/ Rail Traffic Controller, other trains nearby, and anyone else as required.

  2. Conductor gets down, walks train to find apparent source of problem. Note - not carrying anything at this time because he has no idea of what precisely caused the problem. Conductor closes last anglecock valve before break.

  3. Conductor returns to loco, tells engineer what it looks like happened, and picks out correct type of coupler knuckle or other part as needed. Meanwhile, engineer pumps up air pressure on front part of train and deals with cops, angry motorists, any media types, etc.

  4. Conductor walks back to break, installs new part, radios engineer to 'Back ‘em up’ and makes the joint, reconnects air hoses, and opens the anglecock to restore air pressure on the rear/ rest of the train.

Sorry, it was late when I typed my response. Lose the quotation marks. I consider it a direct insult at me (and other railroaders on here - both paid and volunteer), and it is completely unwarranted. I try to be respectful when I reply to your posts, and I would hope to expect the same courtesy from an educated man like yourself. And my ego is fine, thank you very much. I enjoy my job enough to talk about experiences on this site. If I didn’t like my job, I bet I could find other uses for my free time.

Do we even know it was a knuckle? All I read was “coupling problem” (or cuff-link problem). 2 hours seems excessive, but what was the length of the train? I am not qualified on CN rules, but I’m betting an emergency application of the brakes requires an inspection. How much of a

Two hours may not be an unreasonable amount of time to fix a broken knuckle. However, two hours is not a reasonable amount of time to block a sufficient number of crossings to disable a city’s emergency response system. Considering that we all agree that a broken knuckle is a routine matter, there needs to be a way of fixing it without unreasonably long and widespread disruption to a city. It does not require new technology to do that. It only requires pulling the head end ahead, and maybe pulling the hind end back if they can find a locomotive to do it.

Derailments are not routine, and they can certainly block grade crossings for several days. But even when that happens, the rest of the train is quickly pulled ahead and back in order to unblock all of the crossings not directly affected by the derailment.

Yeah, but when you have a derailment, the schedule has gone to heck. And you need the rest of the cars pulled away so the wreck crews can do their thing.

But a broken knuckle usually is easy to fix right then and there, and the train can continue along it’s merry way. Unless there’s another crew right there that can slam that broken car on some siding to be addressed later… of course that depends on which end has the broken knuckle.

Yeah, it sucks the city was blocked, but how long would it take a crew to grab the other cars? (that’s if there’s another crew you can find…, that’s if the track isn’t blocked by other trains…) Emergency services should know how to get around blocked crossings. If they can’t, well, they better work on their planning.

PS: I love that feeling when you go to pop open a knuckle and it falls to the ground. LOL.

Because that’s better than your foot ? [:-,]

If the road is that life-critical to the functioning of the town that it can’t tolerate a 2-hour closure - from any cause, railroad ‘cuff-link’ problem or otherwise - then the town also has a problem, and badly needs to find or create alternative routes or methods.

  • Paul North.

Let me make a couple of updates to your scenario…

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[quote user=“Paul_D_North_Jr”]

Yep. Here’s how I anticipate it pretty much happened:

  1. Train breaks apart and goes into emergency. Crew says favorite unprintable epithets, prays it all stays on the track, and notifies Dispatcher/ Rail Traffic Controller, other trains nearby, and anyone else as required.

  2. Conductor gets down, walks train to find apparent source of problem. Note - not carrying anything at this time because he has no idea of what precisely caused the problem. Conductor closes last anglecock valve before break.

Communication between Conductor on the ground and Engineer would be over the radio…not walking back and forth.

  1. Conductor returns to loco, tells engineer what it looks like happened, and picks out correct type of coupler knuckle or other part as ne

Uuummm…who said this is a “short train?” In reallity, it was probably one of CN’s 10,000 footers. Absolutely hardly anyone noticed the fact that the article NEVER said it was a short train…obviously no one reads very well. The exact statement was… “Since CN announced its plans to purchase the EJ&E, we’ve had no choice but to oppose the deal, as we have pointed out repeatedly to the Surface Transportation Board (STB), and now before the federal court of appeals in Washington DC, that even a relatively short freight train running on the EJ&E has the capacity to block all crossings and the Metra commuter line that runs through the center of the village,” Darch said. The guy NEVER said the train was short. He said it HAD THE CAPACITY to block…READ, guys, READ!!

Who said it was a short train? No one in this thread even said anything about its length. In fact most people have assumed it was a long train based on the amount of time it took to correct the problem. Reference the hour per mile ratio mentioned earlier. I know I assumed as much.

Well, your post seems to indicate a strong dislike of CN.

And your repeated jibes at the railroaders here and in most threads you respond in seem to indicate a dislike of us as a group, although I suspect it is because we resist change for changes sake.

Yup, air brakes have evolved since their invention, but you don’t see that.

It amazes me that you belong to a forum that was populated by professionals involved daily with the subject matter, yet you and a few others seem to fail to grasp the fact that when one of us tells you “it works this way because”… you take off on a tangent explaining how we refuse to change, are simply satisfied with the status quo, so forth and so on, when in reality our industry does evolve all the time.

As for the subject of this thread…if the city was so concerned about that particular road being blocked by a train, well the solution is simple…don’t cross the tracks.

Go under, or over, but not across.

But the city built the crossing, designed by them, installed by them, and mostly paid for and maintained by the railroad.

If you decide to cross the tracks, then you should also accept the fact that, like any machine, a train may break down, in your way, so have an alternative route planned.

As for two hours being excessive, not really.

According to both NORAC and GCOR, if the train goes into emergency brake application, you first advise the dispatcher and any trains in your area you are aware of where you are and what has happened.

Then, by the rules, the conductor or brakeman must inspect the entire train, both sides, to make sure all the wheels are on the rail and no serious damage has occurred…during this inspection you determine what caused the emergency application, and if crossing are blocked, after inspection, if possible, you move the portion of the train you can clear of the crossing.

Once you find the cause, depending on what happened, changing a knuckle, even with a utilit

My point in this this thread has been missed about as bad as it could be.

I’m not talking about what EJ&E and the builders of route 14 felt was reasonable. EJ&E’s traffic profile was very very different and the traffic on 14 was different at that time.

I’m talking about CN’s Stated plans, their stated train’s per day Rte 14’s current profile and the Enivornmental Impact Report.

Based on CN’s goals with this line, which includes a significant increase in trains on the line, having an at grade crossing of a ma

A few things

1: read the article, CN says it was for sure a busted knuckle.

2: I keep calling it a state route when in fact it is US rte14, a Federal Highway.

3: From the article:

“Our Route 14 has the second highest traffic of the roads crossed by EJ&J,” with the first being Ogden Avenue in Aurora, Darch said.

Someone give a credible reason why a grade separation wasn’t required by the EIR?

Read the article, the Barrington group’s complaint is completely justified.

I’m flabbergasted by the reactionary bent of this thread.

This is a Federal Highway, not a city street.

When is Barrington going to start helping itself rather than crying about it? You catch more bee’s with honey than you do with jalapenos smothered in Tabasco sauce.

Did you read the article?

Barrington is doing just that. They got funds to do a study of how to do the grade separation.

The complaint was from an advocacy group and the way an advocacy group “helps itself” is by voicing the issue.

Suing CN for money to fix a problem that their change in practice will cause isn’t unreasonable.

Well, Ed, I guess you like to read minds or jump to unwarranted conclusions. So any critical comment concerning railroads and those who work for them “indicates a dislike of [you] as a group” and all because we think “[you] resist change for changes sake.”

I only suggested that the coupler technology might need updating, and made an analogy that the brake systems in place when the Janney coupler was first used have changed a lot since then. Your response:

“Yup, air brakes have evolved since their invention, but you don’t see that.” which seems to have missed my point completely.

And then this:

"It amazes me that you belong to a forum that was populated by professionals involved daily with the subject matter, yet you and a few others seem to fail to grasp the fact that when one of us tells you “it works this way because”… you take off on a tangent explaining how we refuse to change, are simply satisfied with the status quo, so forth and so on, when in reality our industry does evolve all the time.

As for the subject of this thread…if the city was so concerned about that particular road being blocked by a train, well the solution is simple…don’t cross the tracks.

Go under, or over, but not across."

So whatever a professional (who were the original inhabitants of this forum) says is the final word. Woe be to anyone who doesn’t defer to that. And if residents of a city or its government complain about the handling of a crossing, it is dismissed with a contemptuous “don’t cross the tracks” in much the same way as anyone who gets in the way of a train is dismissed on these forums as a “Darwin Award winner.” With those kinds of attitudes of their employees, it is no wonder the railroads have to run “Public Image” ads.

Why are you such a proponent for Barrington?

Do you live in this NIMBY community?

Perhaps because professional railroaders are not blessed by the protection of tenure Professor.

Your attitude hasn’t exactly been helpful either. You’re deifnatley not winning lots of friends here.

Okay. Had a coalie going east, at Tama, knuckle broke, 20% new break. Walked 91 cars back, sure enough. I was carrying a hose and wrench. Had the hoghead toss one down, and pull me up to get it. loaded it on the platform, and proceeded back short of the joint. Of course I left the wrench and hose where he dropped the knuckle. The pin had a cotter pin holding it in. A chunk of ballast did not work, neither did an old spike. There was however a car in Tama yard, so I walked over, grabbed the pin, and went to work. Made the joint, tested it, and put the pin I borrowed back. Walked back to the head end. Delay, 1:45 or there abouts.

It’s easy if the knuckle is within 10 cars or so, but back 90 cars, you have little choice. I am not a jogger, nor is it advisable on ballast shoulders no matter who you are. I am sure that conductor did his best to fix the issue. And no, nobody walks back after loosing the air knowing it is a broken knuckle. So you don’t carry a 90 pound spare with you, (if you even know the type that broke). To think otherwise is folly.

And before anyon