Yes, the ban is under Emergency Order 26. That said, if you’re not an on-duty crew member (defined as anybody subject to federal hours of service laws) you’re in the clear. When I’m working for a railroad as a commercial photographer, I’m free to shoot as long as I don’t distract the engineer.
I bet they could hire foamers on the cheap to film the crew…[:-^]
Looks like he was speeding even through the 70mph stretch just before the curve. No brake application until 5 seconds before is bad for the engineer’s side of the story.
NEW YORK (CBSNewYork/AP) – The Metro-North Railroad train that derailed while rounding a riverside curve in the Bronx was traveling at 82 mph at the time, a National Transportation Safety Board official said Monday.
Two event recorders from the train have been examined, and preliminary information indicates that the train went through the Spuyten Duyvil curve at 82 mph, in a zone where the speed limit drops from 70 mph to 30 mph, according to NTSB board member Earl Weener.
The NTSB also found that about 5 seconds before the engine ground to a halt, brake pressure dropped from 120 psi to 0, Weener said. Investigators still must determine the functioning of the brakes and why the throttle went to 0, he said.
A quotation from the above: “She said the train wasn’t equipped with positive train control – a high-tech system designed to slow down or stop trains to prevent crashes caused by human error.” Will PTC work if brake pressure is 0? I rather doubt it.
It seems strange to me that there would be no brake pressure.
Lack of brake pressure, as stated, does not necessarily indict the engineer yet. The engineer said the brake application did not work…that could the the reason why but does not say when he tried, what he tried, etc. But the report also indicated a rapid drop to zero which could coincide with the derailment pulling the train apart and dumping the air. So the conclusions here would be either the engineer dumped the air entering the curve or didn’t apply the air ahead of the curve, or did apply the air but got no response as he stated, or other events which we can’t imagine. The train jumped the tracks, let us not jump to conclusion.
No train brake application is going to slow a train from 82 MPH to 30 MPH in 6 seconds - from the engineers seat once he REALIZED where he was - the brakes didn’t work as he was 12 MPH over line speed to start with andh no chance of slowing the train to a proper speed to safely traverse the curve.
Unless there extenuating issues with the operation and response of the locomotive to control inputs, this appears to be a case of a lack of situational awareness. Why will be the big question!
Pretty much my conclusion as well. Heck, at 30 MPH, it’s a good 5-6 seconds before I really start to see any difference at all in our speed, so I know I probably can’t even drop from 30 to 10 in that period under normal circumstances.
The trainline at zero is indicative of either an emergency application or the trainline being parted. It usually takes several hour, to days, for a car to bleed off enough that the brakes release after a decent application. If the engineer had made any brake applications prior to the point of the derailment, he would have already known he had a problem.
From where I sit, it’s not looking good for him - but we’ll wait for the rest of the facts.
Just a note to help with definitions. Trainline is an electrical line that connects rail cars and locomotives for control, power and hotel loads. The hose that goes thru the length of the train for brake charging and application is the “brakepipe”. Trains Magazine shows “Train Line” for the brake system in its glossary. That definition does not appear in GCOR or USOR.
I’ve been supportive of the engineer. Up to now. I am creeping backwards because there has to be extraordinary and ultra unusual circumstances or conditions before hand for the engineer not to be at fault or partially at fault…
Unfortunately, I think the engineer dozed off somewhere between the last stop at Tarrytown (14 miles north) and about 10 seconds before the train entered the 30mph curve. Well since the line does not have a PTC or ACSES system, this may be the wake up call to have it installed as soon as possible.
The news media has speculated on track condition, push-pull operation, lack of equipment inspection, etc. as causes of this disaster. This is pure bunk resulting from their general ignorance of railroading.
The pertinent facts that have been released so far based on the event recorders are:
Prior to the accident the train had been going 82mph where track speed was 70mph.
6 sec before the derailment brakeline air pressure went to 0 indicating to me an emergency brake application.
5 sec before the derailment the throttle was shut off.
Unless further investigation discloses an equipment failure, I expect the engineer will be found to be at fault for improper operation of the train resulting in this disaster. For his sake I hope it will be found that he was impaired as a result of some medical condition. However I am afraid it is more likely he was distracted because of cell phone usage or texting as was the cause of the accident in the Chatsworth, CA accident a year or so ago. It is time to require in-cab video cameras to prevent engineers from engaging in such activity. I understand in-cab video has been strongly opposed by the railroad labor unions but they must now understand this is the only effective way to prevent such conduct and prove that engineers properly operate their trains.
I don’t think pertinent facts have been presented or released but rather statement which could be understood by the media… Understood, that is, but not fully comprehended in relation to the whole picture of the event. Catch phrases, exciting images, leading and misleading because the media wants to be able to tell their audience something whether it is true or not, matters or not, or even makes sense or not, but “look at me on TV!” or “read my by line in the paper”, “see I’m on the job giving it to you.” Of course the editors and publishers know as little as the reporters but have deadlines to meet and bottom lines to inflate.
PTC and in-cab video will be demanded by the public, justifiably, union objections notwithstanding on the latter and railroad objections notwithstanding on the former.
Sorry, but I just can’t see engineer error or distraction as an excuse for PTC, forcing the rails to be the sole form of transportation immune from accidents caused by human mistakes. Deaths on the rails are microscopic compared to those on the highway and in the air, including “general aviation.” Why – besides political hysteria – should the rails have to be, at prohibitive cost, perfectly safe?
When someone says “train line,” the first thing I think of is the brake pipe. Train line is used more often in that respect, even if not technically accurate, by most railroaders I know. Kind of like “triple valve” for control valve.
It is true, that when a trailing locomotive trips an alarm, the computer screen says, “train line alarm” (or sometimes “MU alarm”) to indicate the problem is on a trailing unit and not the leader. Still, when someone says they are having a problem with their train line, it’s usually a brake pipe issue they are talking about.
The New York Times. From The New York Times: Metro-North Train Sped at 82 M.P.H. in 30 M.P.H. Zone Before Crash The Metro-North train that derailed in the Bronx on Sunday, killing four people, was traveling more than double the allowable speed through a curving stretch of track, investigators said on Monday. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/03/nyregion/metro-north-train-accident-bronx.html Rgds IGN
Another comment. As much as I hate to say it. Morning right at sunrise(7AM). Cold cold day(+33f @ 5am). I would think the cab heat was probably turned up full blast. Then many minutes of boredom with no stops. My thoughts. Rgds IGN