This would be on the Cardinal route. Obviously, nothing is set and stone (and everything is a long way from potentially occurring), but this seems like an interesting idea. Oxford, Ohio is a college town (Miami of Ohio football games have been on ESPN/ESPN2 over the years), where perhaps a station stop is worth considering.
I guess it is a positive that they are open to building a station. That leaves the problems of the Cardinal’s less than daily service and a schedule that puts them through Oxford in the middle of the night in either direction.
A much better solution would be a regional train sponsored by Ohio and Indiana that runs between Cincinnati and Chicago on a daily basis. However, given Ohio’s previous apathy to the Cleveland/Columbus/Cincinnati route, it seems unlikely to be considered.
Although Illinois is the #2 state for Miami students, trailing only Ohio - 2200 to 7000+, and mostly from the Chicago suburbs, it would seem service to Columbus, etc. would be even more important.
I am under the impression that Miami is a public institution. As such, is it supported by the State of Ohio? If so then should the political leadership of the State be consulted about this expenditure? It’s an interesting thought.
The Cardinal should be near the top of Amtraks Discontinue when times are right list so this to me would seem like a waste of money to create another stop for a train that is at risk of being discontinued…and really should be discontinued beyond Indianapolis.
Even though the “Cardinal” only goes three times per week, on a per trip basis it hauled about the same number of passengers as the “City of New Orleans”, a little more than the “Capitol Limited”, and a little less than the “Crescent”, (2016 data times 3/7).
This new stop sounds like a good idea. There are probably other places in the country that could use a stop, especially on the outskirts of metropolitan areas.
Are your passenger counts only from the end points? 300 miles between intermediate stations? 200 miles between intermediate stations. Making decisions on such ‘statistics’ about ‘long distance’ is an excerise of folly.
The numbers I cited are between all stations en route, intermediate and end points, from NARP. They also give the 10 city pairs with the most riders. From that, one can see most passengers on the Cardinal ride shorter distances.
Top city pairs by ridership, 2015
Chicago, IL - Indianapolis, IN 196 mi 2. Chicago, IL - Lafayette, IN 122 mi 3. Chicago, IL - Cincinnati, OH 319 mi 4. Charlottesville, VA - Washington, DC 114 mi 5. Charlottesville, VA - New York, NY 339 mi 6. Chicago, IL - Washington, DC 921 mi 7. Charlottesville, VA - Chicago, IL 807 mi 8. Charleston, WV - Chicago, IL 528 mi 9. Chicago, IL - Crawfordsville, IN 149 mi
Even though the “Cardinal” only goes three times per week, on a per trip basis it hauled about the same number of passengers as the “City of New Orleans”, a little more than the “Capitol Limited”, and a little less than the “Crescent”, (2016 data times 3/7).
This new stop sounds like a good idea. There are probably other places in the country that could use a stop, especially on the outskirts of metropolitan areas.
Digging deeper, 60.5% of passengers ride 399 miles or less; 35.2% under 200 miles. It should not be an LD train.
Are your passenger counts only from the end points? 300 miles between intermediate stations? 200 miles between intermediate stations. Making decisions on such ‘statistics’ about ‘long distance’ is an excerise of folly.
The numbers I cited are between all stations en route, intermediate and end points, from NARP. They also give the 10 city pairs with the most riders. From that, one can see most passengers on the Cardinal ride shorter distances.
Top city pairs by ridership, 2015
Chicago, IL - Indianapolis, IN 196 mi 2. Chicago, IL - Lafayette, IN 122 mi 3. Chicago, IL - Cincinnati, OH 319 mi 4. Charlottesville, VA - Washington, DC 114 mi 5. Charlottesville, VA - New York, NY 339 mi 6. Chicago, IL - Washington, DC 921 mi 7. Charlottesville, VA - Chicago, IL 807 mi 8. Charleston, WV - Chicago, IL 528 mi 9. Chicago, IL - Crawfordsville, IN 149 mi
I said twice that LD trains (the Cardinal) are not primarily serving endpoint to endpoint passengers, as is obvious from the data. So that is why I say drop the Cardinal. A rational scheme for taxpaying passengers (as opposed to politicians) would have the daily Hoosier State extended to Cincy, adding a 2nd train if traffic demanded with more convenient times of day scheduled. Another train could run DC to Charlottesville. This would take care of about 87% of the Cardinal’s load and be a better use of equipment. As should be obvious, LD trains are far more subject to compounded delays and inconvenient boarding times (for people) than short corridor services, thus having an inconvenient and unreliable “service” for the public and taxpayers.
Please somebody do something! I live South of Dayton 39 miles from Oxford. Seven day service on the Cardinal (or Ed Ellis’s train to Cincinnati) would be helpful. Mr. Micro-manager, Jimmy Carter personally killed the National Limited from New York to Kansas City in 1979 which would have been convenient. Airline service out of Dayton is “Mickey Mouse”. A recent emergency trip from Dayton to Des Moines, Iowa cost $800 on United taking 17 hours each way (portal to portal) with all the weather delays, oil leaks and the usual airline games.
“A rational scheme for taxpaying passengers (as opposed to politicians) would have the daily Hoosier State extended to Cincy, adding a 2nd train if traffic demanded with more convenient times of day scheduled. Another train could run DC to Charlottesville. This would take care of about 87% of the Cardinal’s load and be a better use of equipment.”
The DC to NYC segment is left out of this plan, but besides this it would require (4) four sets of equipment, whereas making the Cardinal daily on the existing schedule would require only (3) three sets. There is quite a bit of efficient mileage generated by having a longer trip running overnight, without stops to turn equipment.
Can the point be proved that the daytime corridor run would net a lower loss (better revenue to cost)? Since such a corridor will basically be two Hoosier States, can the point be shown that the loss per passenger mile would improve?
Day of travel walk-up fares tend to be very high, but with a little advance planning, air travel is highly competitive, especially when the need to get there quickly is important.
According to Travelocity United, American, and Delta offer an average of 18 flights a day between Dayton and Des Moines. Flight times run from approximately 4 to 6 hours; all the flights involve a connection. Purchased in advance, roundtrip fares begin as $289.60.
There are 16 non-stop or one stop daily flights from Dayton to Chicago, with advance purchase round trip fares for less than $100. Flying time appears to be around 1 hour 20 minutes.
Flying to or from some cities has gotten more difficult. Dayton does not appear to be one of them.
However, the average roundtrip fare Dayton to Des Moines, is $493 per the USDOT Q2/2016 Data, line 2858 in Table 6’s Excel sheet of single segments, without any fees.
That is about $0.42/passenger mile (normalized to the longer 593 highway miles), and this is in the “fee for everything era” of airlines, where tickets exclude baggage fees and change fees. Sleepers could be priced for a lot less than that if the route was run and cover their costs.
Two key points! Air service between Dayton and Des Moines is not Mickey Mouse. And one can, with a little advance planning, get a substantially better fare than the average fare or the daily walk-up fare.