The only op sessions I’ve been to use the colored dot method. They system works great for that layout. It is very large 25 x 75 with up to 4 levels in places. In the two times Ive been there guests, have out-numbered the regulars and despite the guests lack of familiarity with the layout, they were able to run and have a good time.
Our club is at a transition point. Having tasted ops, we want to convert our running sessions to operations. However, it’s a matter of teaching old dogs new tricks and none of us have any experience at ops per se. Our layout consists of a giant circle (convoluted dogbone actually) with one direction of travel that appears as a giant two track main.
We have adapted a system of train orders and switch lists that is in its infancy. Right now we have 5 passenger routes and 5 freight routes.
The five freight routes consists of three routes that send out cars and pick up new cars from the layout. Two other freight routes basically collect the cars set out by the other three routes and the system is reset.
We have only run this system on an experimental level.
Advantages: It tells every engineer EXACTLY what to do and what order to do it. This is critical to our learning process. The most experienced among us has been to two op sessions. A few of us have read Koester and Chubb so we are extremely green.
It helps to build familiarity through repetition.
We are at present an independent lot. We want to “just grab a train” and go out and run. Preset routes allow us to maintain this sense of independence.
Guests will be able to use the system because the switch lists are in order of the layout.
Disadvantages: It is a closed system that depends on all the routes being run to “reset” itself for the next op session.
It is always the same, although with 10 routes, and combining ops sessions with building and maintenance, you could run all year with out repeating the s
Right now, mine is just “turn the throttle and run the train” - I don’t have enough track to do much in the way of operation, except to run trains from one staging yard to another. I may try assigning one or more yard tracks as sidings with industries located along each siding - that will at least let me do some switching.
When I have enough track down to do some real operations, I plan on trying both the TT/TO and colored dots systems.
I’ve never had a layout of my own that’s large/dense enough to justify anything as formal as the options you listed. [:D] If I ever get to that point, maybe I’ll try the “train orders” approach.
TT/TO is an abbreviation for timetable and train order.
You might want to rethink your poll choices, here, since you left out some combinations. There are really two things you’re addressing here. Timetable and train order only refers to how you control train movement. Switchlists, waybills, car cards, and wheel reports refer to how you communicate where individual cars are delivered.
For example, some of the common train movement control systems used on model railroads include:
“Captain/Mother may I?” (call the dispatcher and ask for verbal permission to advance)
Track Warrant Control (similar to above, but more formalized and using prototype-inspired paperwork)
Timetable and Train Order
Various centralized signal-controlled schemes, often lumped under the category “CTC”. Not all systems that use signals to control some aspect of operation are CTC, however.
My group uses car cards and waybills to determine where cars go. Since most engineers typically didn’t see the waybills themselves, we offer switchlist forms they can use to put on the conductor’s hat and make a switchlist to work from, if they wish. We control train movements by a timetable and train orders.
I use CC/WB, someday I’ll have full CTC signals. The layouts in our operations round robin group use all different methods. I like car cards for the flexibility.
Okay, I’ll change it. I was only interested in this case with car movements. I’ll remove The train orders from the third choice. We have radios and a dispatcher.
WHEN my layout is Operated, rather than just run, I use a computer generated switch list. I don’t worry about car numbers or anything like that, just that a specific industry has ordered a set out or pick up… It’s modeled after the way the Alturas and Lone Pine use to (or still does) operates… Pretty laid back… I don’t mess with time tables either.
The way it works is like this… A session may include 4 or 5 trains, depending on what we want to do… The number of industries is randomly selected for each train and a switchlist is generated for each one. It will say something like Train #1, XYZ Widget Company, 3 40’ box cars set out, pick up one. The program will also choose the roadname of the freight car. The yard operator will then build the outgoing train using the first 3 available 40’ box cars in the yard (and whatever else has to be there)… Train crew for train #1 will then head out on to the mainline complete its work and then return… The returning train is then broken up in the yard which serves both as a division point as well as a terminal. Loaded cars for other destinations are placed on an outgoing track for points beyond. Next operating session, those cars become available… Empty cars are put back into the till…
There are still a couple kinks to work out of this but I like it because I hate paperwork. I don’t want to shuffle cards around and worry about where car 12345 is. The system is flexible to the point that it doesn’t use road numbers. So I don’t have to concern myself where a car was last placed (yard, siding, industry, in another train, etc)…
My railroad uses a track plan of the town being switched. Each spot is identified by car type and track and spot number. There is a card for each spot that tells the car type and track and spot number. When a train arrives at a location, draw enough cards to make switching interesting. The cards go in a rack on the facia. As each car is spotted, turn that card on its side. When all the switching is done, put the car cards back in the stack and then proceed to the next town.
Train operation is strictly by smoke signals with engineers in agreement as to passing and meeting points.
I didn’t vote because I don’t think that is really going to tell you anything…
I operate on several layouts that are all slightly different. If I understand the point of your questions.
CAR CARDS - These are very nice because as long as the card stays with the car, it doesnt matter which trains are run. One can begin/end an operating session at any time. They are easy to use and understand. There is no set up time. If a car is moved incorrectly, just spot it on an appropriate siding, leave its card, for the next train to move back. The problems are usually that certain cars will cycle to the same 4 destinations. After a while operators see a specific car and just know where it is supposed to go next. This can be broken up a bit by using the “when empty return to x yard” sheets, or by regularly shuffling the destination cars between the appropriate type of freight car (all grain loading boxes get their cards shuffled). Another problem is having to have physical space for all the cards. I’ve been to sessions where operators will spread the cards out all over the scenery.
COLORED DOTS - Haven’t done this for several years but as I recall was least flexbile. Could lead to having cars cycle (depending if the tab was assigned to a car or if they were reassigned at each yard visit). Looked really bad making layout photography during the session impossible.
SWITCH LISTS - usually these are generated by some program like Ship-it or RailOp.
The car selection for assignment is random so certain cars don’t end up cycling. One must learn the syntax of the order sheets, but other than that it is relatively easy to understand. The hardest part is if the name of an industry on the sheet doesn’t match the name of the structure on the layout, or worse, they refer to the locations by number, it can be very difficult to know where a car is supposed to go. If any of the cars move between operating sessions, they are lost to the computer. If this happens s
I’ve operated on layouts using both cards/waybills, and color tabs. For my own layout it will be cards and waybills. Cards and waybills take more effort to do proprely.
The color tab system is very easy for both operators and host. It ends up being a 4 movement cycle, so once in a while the tabs have to have to be moved to different cars, usually between sessions, by the host.
The way I use the Pin System is the most flexible system. I change the pins on the cars each time I reset the layout for OPs. And having a pin board with 50 or so pins to choose from goes a long way in keeping from putting the same cars time and again in the exact industry.
With the other ways, at least the layouts I have operated on, the systems kept the same cars going to the same industries all the time.
And then one system if a train was late it held up the next train out, as they had to wait on a car to fill out the train, that’s real prototypical!
When I repin the cars I have a list of all places that a boxcar, flat, gon, etc. can go, so I do not get a stockcar set out at a coal mine. This is the one biggest complaint/argument I have heard over the years about using the pin system. This corrects that myth.
The next one is well the pins on the tops of the cars don’t look good. How many times do you see the tops of the cars when Railfanning from a parking lot? So you don’t really know what is on top of those cars?
And I hate having to keep picking up the car cards off the floor or propping up the cards against the sides of the cars!
I addressed quite a bit of this on the other thread, but to speak to the point of the club operations. One group I advised uses two systems. They have a set list of trains to run, similar to your “routes” idea. This is basically a set of “pick-up one, set-out one” instructions. They can run these over and over if they choose to.
When they want to have more fun and operate more formally, they bring out the car-cards and waybills. These are stored in plastic pockets in a three-ring binder, organized by road name and car number. A couple of members walk around the layout placing car cards and waybills with each car that is physically present. They just trun the waybill cycle to an appropriate next move from wherever the car is sitting. Then they enjoy the more formal op sesison and when it’s done, they either cycle the waybills for another formal session or pick them up and put them back in the binder.
Because a very large percentage of the cars on the layout are owned by the members, they are never sure what cars will be on the layout at what time or where they will be. So the car card and waybill system lets them adapt to whatever is there at the moment.
Works great for them and it avoids the problems they had earlier with members complaining about sticky dots on top of their nice models. Their typcial session invovles aout 300 cars and they say it takes them about an hour to get ready for a session (not including track-cleaning time).
One of the problems with car cards is that you have to have a card made for each car with the Road name and number at the minimum. This presents a problem then when new cars show up on OPs night as there are no cards made for them. The member now has no way to run his cars unless he does not switch them out of the train!
With the pin system you just put a pin on the car and away you go.
And the pin system I use does not affect the paint on the cars, as I use the poster putty to hold the pin on the car
As for pinning the system I have 800 cars and it usually takes me 45 min to do a max reset.
With the car cards or switch lists if the cars are moved between sessions then you have to go chase the cars and waybills down to get them matched again for the session (again a lot of fun).
I originally started out with Car cards and Waybills so I know from where I speak. It was just too much trouble to hold the cards, keypad, uncoupling tool, radio and then try and switch out the cars without dropping anything. Way too many Keypads and radios hit the cement floor and that was way too costly.
And NO ONE wanted to use a lanyard to hold them. And the members propped up the cards on the sides or the top of the cars causing movement problem when the other trains tried to move by.
Finally the membership said that things had to change or the OPs would be done! So the pin system was developed and not having to drill a hole in each car was priority!
We have been using this system for over 10 years and most of the other modelers in the area have changed over to it just because they finally realized that it was far easier in the long run.
Now I do use Scenario cards to run scheduled trains but the Locals are what most of the operators want to run. I am running 6 independent shortlines on my layout plus the modeled Conrail Lowgrade line. So there is a lot of switching to do.
I understand why you do what you do. It makes total sense. However, I feel I should play devil’s advocate and point out the downsides as I see them. BTW. I have no problem with the looks of the pins.
The biggest thing I see is that the system detracts from the realism because you don’t know what is in the cars or why they are delivering this boxcar to that siding. Now I know that you keep the porper car at the proper location. But I think it would cool to know that I am dropping of sovents to a paper mill and picking up rolls of newspaper,
I do understand the problems with hands. In my mind I am seeing a clipboard that holds the train orders, Has a pouch for car cards, and place to clip throttles and radios. The throttles and radio would not have to leave the clip board to be used. Just a thought.
Maybe you missed that part in my post. The club I was talking about collects the car cards and waybills in a binder between each formal ops session and then doles them out before the next session starts. Easy-peasy.
That’s a shame. Many of the operators I know use the cheap and cheerful canvas carpenter’s aprons to hold all their operating stuff. These work great and cost a few bucks.