I recently saw a picture of a train with mid-train helpers and it got me wondering…what’s the difference between having helpers spliced mid-train vs. the more typical practice of having them shove from the rear? Seems like cutting them in mid-train would be more time consuming and less efficient but I’m sure their must be a reason it’s done. Can someone help me out?
Thanks,
Brian
Mark,
Did they cut in ahead of the caboose to avoid crushing it? I thought I read that somewhere, they had to be careful because of the forces on a caboose can not be like a regular car?
Jim
Ah yes, and mid-train helpers on the SP. Something I always got excited about, and miss seeing these days. A photo of a mid-train helper taken at one of my favorite western Nevada locations can be found here:
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=87314
SP9033
Mark -
Your DRGW cutting in an out of mid train helpers must (in fact because it was DRGW) have been a few years ago before the requirements of the current Power Brake Law…it doesn’t happen that fast today…figure losing an hour for the cut in/out total operation.
Since most rail grade, at least in the mountains, are anything but a straight pull; the effects of curvature are part of the requirement to have a mid-train helper. Trailing tonnage behind long and light cars. ie. Empty 89 foot TTX cars and the like. With excessive trailing tonnage behind empty long cars, stringlining is a real cause of derailments as the train winds its way around the high degree of curvature that is a normal part of most mountinous railroad.
If the helper district is long enough (and in the East, for the most part they aren’t), cutting a DPU power set mid-train is a normal operation.
Mid-Train helpers were also used on the East Slope of the Alleghenies around Horseshoe Curve in the Altoona, Pa area from the PRR days until the end of Conrail. They were often used on heavy ore trains, along with certain heavy tonnage general freights. Anyone who has seen the video…150 years at Horseshoe Curve by Revelation Video, will recall a scene filmed in the mid 1990’s at Horseshoe Curve of a Conrail BAPI (Baltimore to Pittsburgh) manifest that had SD40-2 helpers cut into midtrain, and another pair pushing on the rear. The practice pretty much was discontinued once NS took over in 1999. It cost too much time to splice the helpers into the train. The train would stop at Altoona, have to be broken apart, helpers added to the middle and rear, and then the train put back together. 40 miles later, in Conemaugh, the train had to be stopped, broken apart and the helpers removed…and of course the midtrain helpers had to be positioned next to a switch so they could switch from a parallel track onto and off of the train…It ended up costing more time and effort than needed, and NS will add helpers to the head end and rear, as needed, instead of mid train in this area. Dave Williams http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nsaltoonajohnstown
Here is a link to a picture of midtrain helpers at Horseshoe Curve…Pic is part of another website that has older pics of the Altoona, Pa area. http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~duplerd/pa/Xxc011.jpg Dave Williams http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nsaltoonajohnstown
Thanks for all the information provided. I’m accustom to seeing helper engines on the rear of the train or, as Mark pointed out, on the point. I can only recall one instance of seeing mid-train helper and that was on a freight going up the east side of Sand Patch some years ago. As with anything out of the ordinary, it was a site to see.
in some cases it is better having slaves in the middle than on the rear. and mark there can be more than just one engine
Question. Are the mid-train helpers placed in the middle by car number, weight or best guess?
How do they determine placement?
If you have seen a train with multiple helper sets, how many were there? I have seen pictures of trains with two helper sets. Has anyone heard of more than this?
I pulled out my Southern Pacific Western Regional Timetable 3 (October 29, 1989). On page 262 is “Section H Placement of Helper Engine”. Here is what it says.
[quote]
QUOTE:
Section H. Placement of Helper Engine:
1. A helper engine consist of not more than 8 axles, operating or isolated may be placed behind a caboose. EXCEPTION: Within the state of California, not more than one locomotive operating or isolated may be placed behind a caboose.
2. A helper engine not qualifying under Item 1 which weighs less than 840,000 pounds may be placed anywhere in a train, but must not exceed maximum trailing tonnage on ascending grade as shown in Timetable, or be placed behind a caboose.
3. A helper engine which weighs more than 840,000 pounds must be entrained to pull not less than 60% of the tonnage being handled by that helper.
4. Helper engine must be entrained ahead of empty two-axle intermodal cars.
5. METHODS FOR CALCULATING HELPER PLACEMENT AND TRAILING TONNAGE ON ASCENDING GRADES.
(When necessary to relocate helper due to restrictive cars, helper may be moved forward the minimum distance necessary, but must not exceed the maximum trailing tonnage on ascending grade as shown in the Timetable).
EXAMPLE 1: ONE ENTRAINED HELPER
Train tonnage = 8,000 tons
Road horsepower = 2 EF636’s = 7,200 hp
Helper horsepower = 3 EF636’s = 10,800 hp
Total horsepower = 18,000 hp
Determine Road Engine Tonnage:
7,200 Road hp / 18,000 Total HP X 8,000 Train tonnage = 3,200 tons pulled by road engine
Determine Helper Placement:
10,800 Helper hp / 18,000 Total hp X 8,000 Train tonnage X 0.6 = 2,800 tons (Location from rear of train)
EXAMPLE 2: ONE ENTRAINED HELPER AND ONE END OF TRAIN HELPER
Train Tonnage = 10,000 tons
Road horsepower = 4
As a side note about the special instructions posted by ericsp for those interested:
EF636, E=EMD, F=Freight Locomotive 6=6 axels, 36=3,600 HP. These would be SD45s or SD45T-2s.
EF630, E=EMD, F=Freight Locomotive 6=6 axels, 36=3,000 HP. These would be SD40s or SD40-2s.
Thanks eric, I know that took sometime to type in - very informitive
SP9033
SP9033
Ok - Now I have another question regarding crew placement on trains with helpers.
For the sake of arguement, say a train has a single helper on the point and 2 more units pushing on the rear. Does this mean the train would have/need a total of 3 crews (1 for the helper on the front, the crew of the train needing assistance and 1 for the helper on the rear?) Or would the crew of the train needing help move to the cab of the helper on the point and then the only additional crew needed would be the crew for the helper on the end?
Thanks again for the great info!!
Brian
I remember seeing two helper sets on the Kaiser ore trains running over Beaumont hill.This train usually had three U28Cs on the front,three mid-train, and three more cut in just ahead of the caboose.
Once at San Luis Obispo, I saw a freight with one SD45, about a dozen cars,four more SDs and the rest of the train.What would be the purpose for this arrangement?
You are welcomed. You forgot the T in SD40T-2.
Also, the BKDOL is the Bakersfield to Dolores Loaded Unit Train (Oil Cans) and the OGWCC is the Ogden, UT to West Colton Coal. I think the JRLAP is the James River (Portland, OR, I think it may have originated on UP at Seattle) to Los Angeles Paper.
ericsp,
I certainly did miss the T in SD40-2s. I’ll take 20 lashes with a wet noddle as my punisment.
About the only symbol I remember from the 80s and my area is the SLOAT.
SP9033 - Lawton, NV 235.5
I always thought cut in helpers worked better than rear of train helpers. They do take longer to cut in and out but if you were close to the tonnage ratings of the road and helper units, cutting them in seemed to be the most reliable method especially if you were likely to have to stop on the grade to meet trains or the rail was wet.
I found with mixed types of units, 6 axle, 4 axle, turbo, non turbo and such allocating tonnage to each traction motor available worked best. Take the total tonnage of the train, divide that by the total number of traction motors and place the helpers behind the road units so the loads on both sets were balanced. If any placement restrictions negated that set up then I feel it is better to move the helpers ahead some to keep the train stretched. I also don’t like to place the helper crews close behind asphalt or creosote ties.
Alan
The “slave units” used a radio car that coupled to the units being used in the middle,or used a unit that had the controls built into the unit,located in the nose of the cab.We called them radio trains on the NS.The lead unit has a radio control panel on the engineers stand that controlled the middle motors.I was qualified on them at school in 1993 but have never used one.The NS was using them on what was the Kentucky division years ago,but I’m not sure if they do know?Rear pushers are used on the mountains in WVa because the radio transmission is near impossible in a radio train setup.Less maintainance I’m sure too.
On Norfolk Southern’s Helper district between Altoona and Johnstown, Pa, if a train gets head end helpers, and rear helpers, you will have three crews on that train. The road crew will turn over control of the train to the head end helpers until the train gets over the mountain, and the helpers cut off. When they put a double helper (4 engines) on the rear, of say, a heavy coal drag, they’ll usually MU the sets together, and one helper crew will control both sets, while the 2nd helper crew rides along until the train gets over the mountain, and the helpers are split back apart. The road crew on the head end would operate the train as normal in this instance.
[quote]
QUOTE: Originally posted by ericsp
I pulled out my Southern Pacific Western Regional Timetable 3 (October 29, 1989). On page 262 is “Section H Placement of Helper Engine”. Here is what it says.
[quote]
QUOTE:
Section H. Placement of Helper Engine:
1. A helper engine consist of not more than 8 axles, operating or isolated may be placed behind a caboose. EXCEPTION: Within the state of California, not more than one locomotive operating or isolated may be placed behind a caboose.
2. A helper engine not qualifying under Item 1 which weighs less than 840,000 pounds may be placed anywhere in a train, but must not exceed maximum trailing tonnage on ascending grade as shown in Timetable, or be placed behind a caboose.
3. A helper engine which weighs more than 840,000 pounds must be entrained to pull not less than 60% of the tonnage being handled by that helper.
4. Helper engine must be entrained ahead of empty two-axle intermodal cars.
5. METHODS FOR CALCULATING HELPER PLACEMENT AND TRAILING TONNAGE ON ASCENDING GRADES.
(When necessary to relocate helper due to restrictive cars, helper may be moved forward the minimum distance necessary, but must not exceed the maximum trailing tonnage on ascending grade as shown in the Timetable).
EXAMPLE 1: ONE ENTRAINED HELPER
Train tonnage = 8,000 tons
Road horsepower = 2 EF636’s = 7,200 hp
Helper horsepower = 3 EF636’s = 10,800 hp
Total horsepower = 18,000 hp
Determine Road Engine Tonnage:
7,200 Road hp / 18,000 Total HP X 8,000 Train tonnage = 3,200 tons pulled by road engine
Determine Helper Placement:
10,800 Helper hp / 18,000 Total hp X 8,000 Train tonnage X 0.6 = 2,800 tons (Location from rear of train)
EXAMPLE 2: ONE ENTRAINED HELPER AND ONE END OF TRAIN HELPER
Train Tonnage = 10,000 tons
Road horsepower = 4 EF636’s = 14,400 hp
