When did the Union Pacific Railroad take over for the Missouri Pacific?
I thought that they were around longer than that, I do recall the headquarters was located in St. Louis, Missouri and it went to places like Dallas-TX, Kansas City-KS/MO and somewhere along the central plains.
On the UP web site under their chronological history they have the 1982 date and also under 1997, January 1 the Missouri Pacific legally merged into the UP, and the UP being the surviving corporate entity.
Jeff
One segment of the merger that is somewhat overlooked is that Southern Pacific/Cotton Belt were given trackage rights over the Mopac between St.Louis-Kansas City.This connected with the Golden State route in KC west to the Sunset Route at El Paso and made the Golden State a big vital part of SP/SSW. This was a somewhat bitter pill to sallow for Mopac: allowing their main rival to have trackage rights across Missouri. Mopac agreed and SP/SSW gave their stamp of approval to the UP-MP-WP and the rest we know is history.
The UP is really the MP in disguise.
I’ve heard the term “the MOP mentality” from the ex-CNW people concerning the way the railroad was being run. When I went to engr’s school at Salt Lake City, our instructor who started with the original UP felt about the same way.
Jeff
“I thought that they were around longer than that…”
I agree… they WERE around longer than that.
In The Train Watcher’s Guide to North American Railroads first published by the librarian of TRAINS magazine in 1984, there IS and entry for the Missouri Pacific (and this book did not have any fallen flags, because they had a different book for that). It also says at the end of the entry “Merger of MP, Western Pacific, and Union Pacific is under way.” Then it has data about them such as offices, etc. Therefore the Missouri Pacific was NOT merged in 1982 as M.W. Hemphill stated. I’m not trying to be argumentative, and maybe the book was published after the merger and somehow they couldn’t update it, but you’d think they would… especially since the FIRST edition was done in 1984, and my edition is the THIRD from '88. So I think that they did not merge with UP and WP until some time several years after 1982 as M.W. Hemphill said.
But you also said “Perhaps what you recall is locomotives bearing the old paint scheme for several years afterward.” I find that interesting because UP actually painted some ex-MoPac engines up in UP colors and the same stenciling on the side except instead of “Union Pacific” they said “Missouri Pacific.” I think these units also used the UP logo though, not the MoPac buzzsaw logo.
On another note, since you guys are talking about stockholders and SP/Cotton Belt (I know they were part of two different conversations, but it made be think)… in my opinion When UP “took over” SP the stockholder~~(s)~~ got the best deal… or should I rephrase that as the owner/major stockholder was paid so much (all in stocks of UP) by UP corp. for SP that he became the biggest shareholder in the whole UP, which technically meant he took over them not vice versa. Sorry for spouting at great length. [soapbox] Bye for now.
So what exactly is the “MoP mentality?”
Fox, I also have Volume II and I have to go with Mark. But I am disappointed that you missed the merger humor about last names. Shameful that the MOPAC and Western Pacific were forsed to give up their first names just to belong. This came from Southern Railway before they got the last name of another merger that started in the 80’s. [swg]
SSW Also gave the MP trackage rights between Dexter, MO to Dupo, IL along the SSW’s old line along the Mississippi River. Lines that were owned by MP branced off the Cotton Belt in several places in Ilinois. I’m only 14 (almost 15) and I only spotted 4 MP units in my whole railfanning “career”. 3 were actual MP units and 1 was a former MP HATX unit.
"But I am disappointed that you missed the merger humor about last names. " How so? What do you mean… I know the joke about MP, WP, SP, etc. giving up their first name but getting UP’s last name, (Thus being called Union Pacific anyway) when they went to merge with /become part of UP. Is that what you meant or were you talking about something else? -thefox-
P.S. I don’t doubt that everyone here has checked their facts, and as I mentioned, I wasn’t really trying to be argumentative… just helpful. Sorry if I didn’t add anything useful or relevant to the conversation. You guys ARE probably right about the merger dates.
I thought that Missouri Pacific wasn’t officially "merged " into UP until four or five years ago. I might be wrong. Just wondering.
Mike
I always thought MOPUP was more descriptive.
I don’t mean to interupt a discussion of the Pacific Clan, but if memory serves me, wasn’t MOPAC once a takeover target of the old Southern Railway? An informed communication on this somewhat minor tidbit would help my courisoity.
A thousand pardons Mark, real bad choice of words. - Roy
It certainly seems, in retrospect, that the Missouri Pacific was one fine railroad. Sure, they ended at El Paso, Tx, but other than that, they were not only blessed with being in good locations, but having pretty good routes, and having good decision makers. Was the C&EI purchase simply brilliant, or what?
While everyone was doing parallel mergers to cut costs, MoPac expanded into the largest rail market in the world…and on a pretty good route too.
Today, one would look at their map and see just a great franchise. Chicago, St. Louis (also bypassing St. Louis), Kansas City, and a straight shot down to Texas (and the Mexico market). Sure, a couple of dead ends…El Paso and Pueblo, but overall, a railroad that has a purpose.
I rode from St. Louis to Pueblo in 1964 as a wide eyed kid and dont really remember much about it, but I remember being late at Kansas City coming back. I was a little railfan in the making back then, because I commented about us being late and an elderly man looked at me and said something to the effect of “son, this is the MIssouri Pacific. We WILL be on time in St. Louis.”
We were.
ed
I was a legal participant in the UP / MP’s acquisition of the MKT. All the documents I received ( 2 banker’s boxes worth! ) referred to the application to the ICC as "Union Pacific Corporation, Union Pacific Railroad, Missouri Pacific Railroad control of Missouri Kansas Texas Railroad, Oklahoma, Kansas & Texas Railway. " So it’s safe to say that the MP still existed, on paper at least, in 1987 -1988.
I ended up as a participant in that application because my employer at the time was a big shipper on the Katy. They had contracts with both the Katy and MoP, via reciprocal switching. So the UP / MP merger with the Katy was a big thing for them. My employer worked out an agreement to keep their existing rates, but I ended up with all the contact information at the ICC. So, as an individual, I wrote the ICC and explained to them why I thought the acquision was a very bad idea. I explained that allowing the UP / MP to acquire the Katy would be a severe economic blow to numerous small towns in Oklahoma and Texas. In some cases the cities I wrote the ICC about lost almost their entire commercial tax base when the MoP’s parallel line was removed. One city went bankrupt. Business people forget that their ability to operate as corporate entities is a grant from the states in which they operate , and not an inherited right. So, it is reasonable to expect their operations to be of benefit to the citizens of those states.
At any rate I’m aware from my contacts in the RR business that the MoP still existed on paper until just prior to the UP + SP merger. The UP cleaned up it’s own house before buying the SP and the MoP went away.
Mark
Actually Missouri Pacific granted Cotton Belt trackage rights from Valley Junction (East St. Louis) to Illmo, MO. Cotton Belt granted reciprocal trackage rights for Missouri Pacific trains to operate from Illmo to Paragould, AR. That agreement dated back to the time that Edwin Gould was president of the Cotton Belt and his brother George was president of the Missouri Pacific.
And those Missouri Pacific branches in Illinois were branching off their own steel.
Do not know if this belongs here or on the SP surviving without UP merger thread, but here goes.
I beleive that UP saw the diamond in the rough with MP’s line from Dallas to El Paso (T&P) as a good line to feed southern California. History shows how MP got the shaft on the traffic handoff with SP at El Paso. UP being aware of this could have bought the SP to give it a direct shot to Los Angeles. Traffic on the old T&P line is way up since the merger and the UP recently relaid the switch at Sierra Blanca to give the straight shot to the T&P line and the turn for the old Sunset route.
*** Watkins
Why did UP not abandon the line west of Monahans? If I remember the recent article on the line, they were down to just one train a day to El Paso.
Perhaps the traffic originated in West Texas flowed to the west and it was necessary to take it to El Paso. Otherwise it would have gone back to Ft. Worth, down to San Antonio, then west to El Paso. That would have added over 1000 miles.
For whatever reason, they are lucky the line was not severed. No doubt it was discussed in the board room in Omaha, or wherever big time decisions were pondered.
ed
From the “For what its worth Dept:” There is an old wag; personalities in business are often the business of personalities. This seems to be oneof those places as well. -Pious