I know the feeling about scenes being correct. As a former EMT on ambulance and rescue, the guys would always watch “Emergency” and then nit-pick it apart the next time we got together. It was fun, so is model RRing. My road is a freelance, mid-fifties, mostly steam road. My problem is having to figure out which rolling stock is correct for my era, Normally I look at the build date on a car and if it’s 1956 or earlier it joins my fleet. Is there an easier way to date rolling stock because some manufacturers don’t include it on the sides. I know boxes get lost or overflowed with junk, er, valuable someday parts. Couldn’t it be molded into the underside of the car, even with a date code of some sort. Any ideas on this guys and gals?
I have an ORER from roughly the right time (its an April 2008 one, but my hypothetical layout is late summer 2008). If I want a car, I consult the ORER. If its in there, I buy it.
Bing,
For many people the study of railroad history to a point were one is knowledgable about the designs and progression of rail car development is a side aspect to the hobby that allows one to know in most cases if a specific car fits their era.
There are endless resources in print and on the web to allow one to learn about railroad rolling stock and its ages, uses, ownership, construction, etc.
A few guide lines to get you started.
In 1956 freight cars still had roof walks, only a few had roller bearing trucks. Very few cars were longer than 50’ to 54’. Many box cars were still the 40’ types, some wood sheathed cars still around.
Covered hoppers were a new idea and most were only 35’ to 40’ long. Tankers were only 40’ long, many reefers were still wood sheathed, only a very few had refrigeration, most still ice cooled.
54’ piggy back flat cars were carring two 36’ truck trailers or one 35’ foot truck trailer - 40’ truck trailers were not legal on the highways until 1957. 75’ flat cars carring two 35’ vans were “brand new” on the PRR, Walbash and few others.
40’ - 70 ton - 3 and 4 bay hoppers were fairly new, most hoppers were 35’ - 50 ton, two bay models.
Many 50’ double door box cars had special racks inside to transport six new autos, open auto racks on 50’ flat cars were tested but never became popular. Larger auto racks did not come until the 60’s.
Mill gondolas for the steel industry were one of the long car exceptions, 65’-70’ cars started showing up in the late 40’s if I recall.
In addition car style, you may want to research paint schemes as many of these cars lasted many decades and had one scheme in the 50’s and a different scheme by the 60’s. In those days, the railroads had pride of ownership - not like now - and most equipment was repainted every 5-10 years, sometimes more.
Hope this helps,
Sheldon
I’m with you. I freelance, but try to be as accurate as possible. I think your idea is a good one. The manufacturers could even do it by a separate flyer inside the box, not necessarily devote expensive tooling for modling it into the bottom.
That service would come at a price, however, and would depend upon how much research the manufacturer did themselves before offering the model. I don’t own any of the premium models, such as Tangent, but I wouldn’t be surprised if they include some information like this in their product line, considering that being prototypically accurate is part of their philosophy and they’ve already gone through the trouble of researching the prototype. “Lesser” companies may just take a set of blue prints and put a variety of paint schemes or general build dates on their models, not necessarily having to research the prototype before offering the models.
Generally speaking, IMO, If a modeler cares enough about the prototypical accuracy of a model, then they should be able to tell for themselves if the model is accurate or not, by performing their own research. I don’t think we should expect a manufacturer to supply that information or even a certain level of accuracy. They are trying to meet the demand created by all types of modelers, including those who may not be so sticky about such things.
But it would certainly make our modeling efforts that much easier, wouldn’t it.
Sheldon:
Thanks for that rundown. You answered some questions that I had been meaning to ask for some time.
Doughless:
I think that manufacturers should include date specific information at least in their packaging, if not on the model itself. The problem of course is that to do so would be self defeating since it would cause modelers to reject the car if it was too new or too old. Without that information, I suspect that lots of modelers will buy a car because they like it and it “sort of” fits their time frame. That means more sales rather than fewer.
Dave
Two summers ago, I saw a covered hopper with a B&O Capitol Dome still painted on it. I see Family Lines and Seaboard System on covered hoppers every day. Once in a while, I see D&H boxcars, the shadow of a Rock Island R on hoppers, and all manner of decades old fallen flags, right from the comfort of my apartment’s windows.
How would you mark the boxes for those? Its a 40 year window. But Vert-A-Pacs came and went in those cars lifetimes. Some work has to fall onto the model’s shoulders.
The Model Railroader’s Guide to Freight Cars by Jeff Wilson will help. It’s currently out of print, but you might find a copy at a train show.
Some manufacturer’s on their web site will include date data on their models.
Trains magazine back issues are available on disk from 1940-2010. Obviously the 1940’s-the 50’s will help.
Most larger train shows have book dealers that will have books on freight cars.
Good luck
Paul
I guess I’m lucky in that the narrow gauge never upgraded their cars much from the late 1800’s on til’ their general demise in the late 1960’s. Still, some nit-pickers are out there in narrow gauge that catch cat walks that were modified in a fleet wide re-work in 1928 or cars with wooden end sills run in the 1950’s layout when they were shopped to metal in the 30’s or the many varying truck types, etc.
Standard gauge roads changed stuff in major ways constantly over the years and for the rigid prototypers there are plenty of hard and fast rules to follow on rolling stock choices. All my best to those standard gaugers modeling big name roads trying to match rolling stock to their era. Also much admiration to those who dare to run whan they d–ned well please.
Richard
Most cars have a BLT or new date on the sides, that should help. But, some manufacturers take liberties with cars and paint schemes(read Accurail and Athearn), so you’re not always getting a true prototype. Kadee cars have the correct info for cars on their web site. Branchline did also, not sure what Atlas will do, but their other cars do show dates on web site also. You have to do some research on your own.
Most tank cars from the fifties were under 40 feet in length, P2K cars are a better fit. Actually there were lots of 40 and 50 foot wood sided cars still on the rails back then. Forty foot gondolas also.mh
I don’t think a car being too old is as much a problem as being too new. Being I model the mid 50’s, a car from the 40’s could be on my road but a 70 ft tanker from the 80’s or 90’s would definitely not be suitable. I surely will not buy it, but an older one I would. I do not thik it would harm sales at all but would encourage the true modeler to buy. The floor train set or around the tree set would not care as much, but it may help them to understand modeling better. I have a fairly good idea of what fits my era but there are some stinkers that I am sometimes not sure of. Incorrect BLT dates or no BLT dates add to the confusion. Sure I can research it on line or look it up in a book, but if I run across something when neither of these resources are handy and it’s a real deal I’m seeing , then what? I don’t want to throw money at something that turns out I can’t use.
It sure couldn’t cost much for the under side of a car and/or engine to have the appropriate era put on it. It would only take the mold maker a minute or so to scratch the date into the mold when making it. When I find a model maker that starts to do this, I will surely look to buy more of their products with confidence,
Models have gotten much more accurate lately as the modelers demanded it. It would be a good idea to mark the build Date, but then some people may think that only cars built in the last few years would fit their era & the mfgs. would lose sales.
But what if the car is appropriate for different time periods depending on the paint scheme?.
A dated photo of the particilar prototype the model is based on would be more helpful.
One problem with the “BLT” (built) or “NEW” dates - besides as noted, that they aren’t always correct - is that it only tells you when the car was built. It doesn’t tell you anything about the paint scheme. Great Northern introduced it’s “Big Sky Blue” paint / lettering scheme in 1967, and there were some woodsided boxcars from the steam era that got repainted into that scheme. So a car might be “built” in 1938, but have a paint scheme from thirty years later!!
Fortunately it normally doesn’t work the other way around…that is, a manufacturer isn’t going to take a 1990’s or later freight car and decorate it in 1920’s Pennsylvania RR paint scheme. So you may want to work more on learning paint and lettering schemes as much as car types. I found decal catalogues, like the old Walthers PLD 1-4 books, were very helpful. After a time, you get a ‘feel’ for it. Billboard lettering with big letters and heralds and bright colors became popular toward the end of the fifties, and generally you can tell the difference between them and the simpler letterins schemes of earlier times.
I don’t want dates or even manufacturers names stamped all over the bottoms of cars - you notice these days few if any even have brand identification on them
Some engines and cars do come with info about their history. Years ago many of the original multi car sets in the Athearn blue box kit line came with printed inserts that explained the history and dates of paint schemes and cars in the kit.
A simple printed insert would be the way to go. But as noted there are lots of variables, paint schemes being the biggest one.
Sheldon
A insert would be a good item to have but as you know they have a way of wondering off, the backs used for important notes and such. I think it should be put on the outside of the box so at least the orginal buyer knows the time period. I don’t worry about a 1940’s car with a “new” paint scheme, I can always get out the airbrush and retro it. I just don’t want to do my mid 50"s road and have a 1960 car slip in to my roster. Of course I won’t see it until some astute visitor points it out. Just want to save face guess. I’m not a rivet counter but I would like to have my rolling stock and motive power be correct. As a matter of fact, I want all things to be as they should be.
I do have a good idea in most instances but I would like to know for sure when I see something straddling the line. I still think some marking in an out of the way, out of easy sight would be nice. And if it’s done, make the place standard on all cars so we know where to look.
When I was younger, I began getting BB kits that my dad picked out; he is an experienced modeler and taught me if I got smaller (40’) cars, I could run longer trains as well as realistically (and reliably) fit more into a 4x8 layout. At that time (to me at least), a flat car was a flat car, a box car was a box car, etc… As my modeling matured and I became more experienced, I focused more on prototype modeling (locale, era, ‘starring’ railroads, etc). When I pulled the BB’s out for evaluation and to apply weathering and otherwise bring my fleet of rolling stock up to better standards, I realized most of those models had no prototype. I could either kitbash every one and make them plausible or even accurate models, or use them as-is until I purchase more suitable (accurate) models. One by one, I acquired accurate models and built some of them while designing and building a couple layouts; no matter how many layouts I build, I always have my ‘more accurate’ models to run anywhere. Now, I’m at a point where I am working on stripping, detailing, repainting and re-lettering the BB’s (and other kits) to be, at least, visually more accurate (even if they are the wrong dimensions and don’t have prototype specific details-I had to pick my battles). Even though they aren’t exactly right, they are still cars that can be run, delivered, picked up and switched; 100% accurate or not, I accept for them for what they are…memories of my modeling past.
I urge everyone to bring their fleet up to operational standards even if they aren’t prototypically correct; they can then be run anywhere, with anyone, anytime, reliably. When you have time (and have decided what compromises to make in order to make them prototypical to You), you can begin making these ‘stand-ins’ blend into your fleet better.
Even though beautifully detailed models are available, they make the older BB’s coupled to them, look crude.
Unfortunately if you want to be accurate, you need to do a little of your own research.
There’s the date a car was built, then there’s the date of the introduction of a given paint scheme, and the car(s) might have been acquired secondhand and repainted or renumbered.
Sometimes, either as a deliberate choice to make a stand-in for a similar car, or just an outright mistake or sloppiness, the car itself may be wrong (the railroad never had something in that configuration, or the number is wrong and represents a different kind of car, or a particular paint scheme variation wasn’t applied to that type of car, or …)
Old copies of ORERs (Official Railway Equipment Registers) from around the year you’re modelling are very helpful to validate number series and dimensions, although they don’t do anything to verify build dates, paint schemes or builders (unless there’s something unique about the car’s capacity or dimensions that instantly identifies it as a particular model). These occasionally pop up on eBay or at swap meets.
Once you verify the number range, it’s off to find photos of similar cars from the same series to compare to. The following photo gallery sites are a good start:
http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca
Also look for other web sites or historical associations dedicated to the railroad in question.
Also look for books on your home railroad. Morning Sun Books has a whole bunch of various freight and passenger equipment color guide books. While it would be difficult and probably excessive to try to collect the whole series, you should really acquired the color guide book(s) for your