As we all know there are two views on purchasing a brass locomotive (new or used) One group rants on how expensive they are and the other group goes ahead and buys it and then later buys another one and so on. I sort of agreed with the “how expensive” bunch until I saw some of their layouts and their responses to certain polls(how many engines do you have???) Well, they complain how much brass costs and they have 15 plastic engines all the same and 15 of another type etc etc , which surely adds up to many times more than a single brass engine, wouldn’t it make sense to have a really favourite brass loco (which also may not be available in plastic) than to buy a bunch of the same type locos because they are cheaper than brass? Just add up the cost of all your rolling stock, then compare that figure to one brass locomotive(just say: $550.00) now is this anywhere near your figure for all the locomotives you now own?? I bet not. I’m not defending the cost of brass as, it is expensive, but looking at the long term of MR. Just some comments on a warm January day.
I suppose it depends on the brass…I have three brass locomotives, and they cost a total of about $250-300…of course, they’re electrics (two Birney streetcars and a steeplecab) and all three take up about the same space as a Ten-Wheeler with tender, so maybe it’s not a fair comparison–but brass or scratchbuilding is about the only way to have a Birney streetcar or a Baldwin-Westinghouse steeplecab (and I consider the MRR Warehouse kits to be “scratchbuilding”–they’re basically a glorified detail part, not a complete locomotive!)
Hi,
It is interesting that you brought this topic up. I share your view to a great extent. In fact, old brass in fine to mint condition can be bought off ebay at $200 to $300, which is the price (or below the price) some of the manufacturers charge for new plastic/die-cast frame locos. The latter may be smoother runners and dcc ready, but brass seam locos with a little tinkering will do just as fine, which I think adds another element of enjoyment to the hobby.
Plastic/die-cast locos may also have seen a big improvement in detailing, but the look of plastic/die-cast metal is in my view second to brass. I for one, have been selling down my plastic fleet, replacing with brass [:D]
I never thought I would be typing this, but just this morning I placed a reserve for the one remaining locomotive that I want to complete my livery, mixed though it is. Dave’s Brass Model trains is taking orders for a Key Imports PRR J1 for $1295. Now that is a whack of cash, let me tell you, but it will be the only such beast of its kind ever for me. It is sort of a now-or-never thing because I am getting further into retirement and further along the constraints of fixed income. For that price, I could have purchased the diecast Lionel Challenger at MSRP and the BLI K4…which I did last September. If the Key J1 had been $2K, I would not have considered it, because that would have driven the price up to include the previous two locos plus all others that I own, including getting them decodered!
I sure hope I am not disappointed. My new BLI K4 is a super honey, and will be very tough to beat. But, guys like Tom W. have several brass locos, and that is pretty much what it takes for them to feel happy in the hobby (I hope I am not speaking out of line). What do they know that the rest of us poor slobs don’t? Well, one lone brass…ever… will provide me with the answer…I guess.
Gulp.
That all depends on what you are after… A single nice looking loco or a fleet of them… The only reason I buy any brass at all is to get specific models. If anyone can point me to even somewhat accurate plastic models of these, I’m listening…
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/wab/wab-s2920.jpg
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/wab/wab-s706ajg.jpg
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/wab/wab-s614.jpg
Jeff
Out of curiousity, I wonder if anyone makes an 2-6-2 Saddle Tanker.
Check Dave’s site. He lists them (I believe I saw them because I was interested in a 2-8-2T). You might find them in the “in stock” list or in future projects. It takes a minute to scroll down through his lists.
to help keep things in perspective: an 0 scale brass locomotive starts at $1,400 and tops out at about 4k. the freight cars hover at around $500…
a y6b pulling 40 cars can be quite an investment.
brass steam is the king I just missed a turbine electric I seen it new for 2000
on ebay in need of a smal repair sold for only 200 but had that been a steam the price is much higher
What you are looking for makes a difference:
o - If you are just collecting engines that are ‘neat’ or appeal to you, you may wind up with a ‘dog from every yard’. There is nothing wrong with this - it is what the buyer wants. This may include plastic, brass, whatever…
o - A modeler is building a roster of engines that ran on the ran on the ‘XZ&Y’ railroad. This may mean that he has 15 copies of a specific engine. His roster may include a mix of plastic/brass - whatever it takes to get the ‘correct’ engines for his ‘era’.
In my case, I have 10 P2K Milwaukee GP9’s - That is what they ran in 1959! I also have about 15 other engines(mix of Milw/CNW/CGW/Etc…). I use the Milw engines for ‘operation’ and most of the rest sit in a display case or are run when it ‘hits’ me. Oh yeah, I also have 3 ‘brass’ engines - Specific for the Milwaukee Road and now are mainly display case ‘queens’.
Jim Bernier
I never understood the brass thing . . . yeah they were really detailed, but the price? Well, a couple of years ago I found a PRR caboose on ebay. Yeah it cost more, much more, than the Bowser plastic version, but still it was lower than other similar models - so I bought the thing. I think I spent the next two hours after it arrived in the mail just turning it over in my hands checking out all the detail. Wow. Don’t know why - there was just something special about it. Haven’t gotten another piece of brass - just a little too pricey for me - but for the guys that can afford it - I can understand the appeal.
Perhaps the guys that have several of the same loco in plastic are like me. They need several of the same engine to accurately portray their favorite railroad - and to do so in brass would be unattainable.
I was thinking about this earlier today, Dave. I have eight different locos spread over four road names. No two locos are alike. So, I was wondering, where am I going? I intend to have only one NYC 4-6-4, but a learned modeller would look askance and ask me where the others are. There should be a couple hooked up, a few in the 'house, one under the coal tower, and so on. Nope, says I, just that lone feller there, next to the unlabeled 0-6-0 and in front of the White Pass Mike. So, now I have to look forward to shoehorning a very special J1 in some time, and I will just have to find a place to park it, and coax it around my tight curves if I don’t dig them all up first.
Still, I was musing earlier that maybe I should, you know, anchor my system around at least an interchange between the NYC and the PRR, or something, just so that I can add a couple more of the K4 and 4-6-4 variety that I like so much. John Armstrong seemed to think that interchanges were a good thing.
So much fun and construction to do, so little time and cash.[sigh]
Still, I’m having
Crandell,
Who cares what the learned modeler would say? If you like having one of several different locos - and doing so makes you happy and enjoy the hobby - I’ll be the last person in the world to say you are doing something wrong!!
My personal idea is to focus on something that makes the impression of a “fleet” hence 4 PRR GP7/9s, 5 CNJ RSs etc. That floats my boat. Is my way more right than your way? Not at all. Is my way not as good as your way? Maybe - those NYC Hudsons sure look cool!!
I’ve always measured the success of a model railroader in one way. Is that person having fun. Using my “real model railroader scale” I would say you are successful!!
If you modeled a NYC PRR interchange you would be modeling my neck of the woods. In fact, out club layout has just such a thing. I on the ohter hand am modeling the West Coast. I just thought it ironic.
And, to my knowledge, I have never set foot on Pennsylvania soil. But I like the fact that the PRR was the largest corporation in the USA in the early 20’s, that it designed and built its own motive power, and that they were so gosh-darned good looking!
Anyway, I guess I should begin to educate myself on the interchange. More research, but that is one of the pleasant aspects of modeling.
Thanks, Chip.
Chip,
How about adding in some New Haven. The PRR and NYC were competitors really, but the New Haven and PRR ran passenger cars through to each other - you could really find NH passenger cars in Washington and PRR passenger cars in Boston.
Also, the PRR learned a lot from the New Haven’s electrification, using the New Haven’s 11000vAC 25cycle catenary system for electrics and the PRR borrowed New Haven EP-3’s to test which is where the base for the GG1 came from, a NH EP3.
On express trains the NH had cabeese that looked almost identical to the PRR N5 - NH NE3 cabeese equipped for REA service and PRR N5’s for REA service could be found on each others trackage on express trains going Boston-Washington.
NH and PRR were common on each others tracks.
Well, even the cheap jack of all trades for the Tillamook Head and Bethel Railway and the OF&S (Old, Fat, and Slow) broke down and bought a used brass engine off eBay. It was a Ken Kidder HOn3 0-4-0T, priced at $10.50 when it was originally sold in the '60s (of course, I paid a lot more). LOL, but it was the cheapest way to get an RTR HOn3 steam loco to check out the newly laid track!
having fun
Fred
Fred,
So tell us - how did it run? What was your feeling when you received your first brass?
You make a good point, but to get the same number of brass loco’s as I have of the plastic ones would make this a hobby that I couldn’t afford. This line of thought works if 1) You want to model a large class 1 RR and you’re rich and hate money. 2) You are young and intend to be in this hobby for MANY years to come and can therefore spread the cost out over a long time. 3) Are modeling a very small RR and only need 1-3 loco’s. 4) either you live alone and make a decent living. 5) You make a decent living and you WANT to live alone!
For example, I have 10 loco’s. If they were all brass and $550.00 each I’d have $5500.00 wrapped up in loco’s alone. Now throw in $1000.00 or so for cars for the ten loco’s to push around and leave a few in the yards, then structures, track, power system, scenery, benchwork, etc., I’d have enough in this thing that I could
This is a popular topic. Usually, most of the comments just bash people who buy brass; no bashing in this thread, and a fair and reasonable mix of views. What comes to me from reading through the thread is - if you stick to the hobby long enough, you will eventually own at least one piece of brass. I remember not understanding 20+ years ago why any actual hobbyist (as opposed to collector - that, I understood at once) would splash out for brass. Then I started looking at it at the shows. Then … a caboose. Then … replaced my other plastic cabooses, they suddenly looked so unrealistic. Then … a steamer. Then … but enough said.
What I still don’t understand is brass diesels unless you are in need of one of the few that have never been done in quality plastic. Perhaps if I were more into diesels this would become clear to me too.