I am moving to AZ and the only place I have to build my next model railroad is in the garage. Any insight the feasibility is appreciated.
I‘m sure it’s hotter where your moving than it is here in Bakersfield (106° yesterday) and my layout in our garage.
Make sure you have some sort of temperature compensation or you will be sorry. I ended up adding an additional R30 to the roof over the garage and that really helped. I also went with an evaporative window cooler and now I can work year round on my layout.
Make sure your garage door seals tight to keep out dust and small varmints, both are bad for the layout.
Carpet tiles help control the dust and it really helps my legs and feet, looks better than concrete too.
I also converted over to LED strip lighting, Fluorescent lighting will fade your scenery over time, LEDs will not.
Have a blast with your railroad!
Mel
Northern AZ is actually quite nice temperature wise. Phoenix and south, I honestly don’t know how people survive.
From my readings on various forums over the years, people who build in garages without finishing the space or finding a way to keep out varmints, and to control humidity and temps, don’t find it a very pleasant experience. I would only consider building in a garage if I were high, well north, or if the garage were at least part of the space of a greater dwelling and not detached.
It turns out that our double-wide is an out-building, and it was unfinished. Also, it has a double-wide lifting car door on the lane side and a single on the back yard side. My wife insisted I partition the garage for a train room. While I was away one week, she had a friend contractor come in and the two of them framed a 12 X 24 room, added a man door into the greater garage that was left, and then insulated and polyed. I finished the ceiling and walls, and had an electrician install the LED square panels, four of them, plus wall outlets.
Having gone through all that, I can honestly say it’s the way to go. Yes, it adds to the expense and takes time, and drywalling is appealing to few except those earning a living doing it. But it’s now a heated and air-conditioned space. I have to fill some chinks around that yard single car door because spiders are invading. So far, no mice.
At the very least, if you don’t want to give up on anything longer than admiring your work for two minutes between May and October, you’ll need to consider a portable upright air conditioner, at least 13K btu, and building a port to vent it.
Selector is correct about a finished garage. Sorry, I forgot to mention that our garage was finished when we moved in, the house was the show home for the area so everything was finished. The builder used this house as a sales office, even the garage was carpeted. The previous owners removed the carpet but left the carpet tack strips.
If your garage is not finished with sheet rock do that first. That really helps temperature control as well as dust and varmint problems.
Mel
My Model Railroad
http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/
I had 2 garage layouts in fla [:|]
They were un airconditioned so it was basically a test and run layout
From nov to april after that all my locos came inside insulate &air condition
What is that?
I’ve had very good luck with my Bonaire Durango cooler. As long as the outside humidity is low an evap cooler works great. Today it was 104° with 10% humidity and the inside air in the garage was 72°, great for working on my layout.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evaporative_cooler
Mel
My Model Railroad
http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/
Bakersfield, California
I’m
That link was VERY interesting, it certainly sounds like the correct system to use in those conditions
I was looking for more info on what ‘insulation requirements’ might be needed for such a system? I either missed them talking about this subject, or there was just not that much discussion of the need for insulation in such a system?
My thoughts were, how do you insulate against humidity?
I did see this quote, “Because the cooling air originates outside the building, one or more large vents must exist to allow air to move from inside to outside”.
I think that’s almost impossible for the average homeowner products. Maybe NASA can do it.
I think the cost effective way is a dehumidifier, or regular air conditioner whichs I believe acts like one (gotta have a drain pan if not an exit hose out of the house.)
Seems like the product discussed only works in low humidity areas, so that would seem to exclude Florida and Georgia.
You don’t insulate against humidity. You provide a vapor barrier on the warm side of the insulation to reduce the penetration of moisture vapor.
Dante
Brian
I had an additional 15” (R30) of loose-fill cellulose insulation blown in my attic. The house is 1950 sq. ft. including the two car garage. The additional insulation cost $1200 back in 2008 but worth every penny, it has saved us at least $500 per year on heating and cooling. The insulation dropped the summer temp in the garage from over 100° to 85° with no cooling. With the evap cooler fan running on low the garage is a very comfortable 72° to 74° with the outside air over 100°. A cool constant 75° air flow can even get a bit chilly on a 106° afernoon.
The humidity here in the summer starts out near 40% in early mornings and is normally under 20% by noon and near single digits by the hottest time of the day allowing a temperature drop of 27° to 33°.
Mel
Here are a couple of quick ideas for model railroading in a garage
By far, the biggest improvement for me was the insulated garage door. We get a lot of afternoon sun on that exposure.
But our summer days average 84-86 degrees and rarely exceed 100 degrees. As others have noted, for the hottest parts of Arizona, air conditioning of some sort would be needed to make the area livable.
Good luck with your move and layout.
Byron
Yeah, I think I only saw one basement in Sacramento ever, so they are very rare. I’d think that limits layouts in CA to garages, outbuildings and attic’s mostly.
Byron, the bay area has a pretty mild climate moderated by the ocean year’round. I lived in the Davis/Sacto area for a number of years and was always impressed by how much cooler it was in the bay area in the summers, and probably a little less cold in the winter, although windier.
How would swamp coolers work in AZ? They work in dry conditions well, but I’m not sure if they are more economical or not vs A/C. In Davis where I lived, they were fairly common in some businesses.
Correct.
I live in the high desert of Wyoming; the OP is in Arizona; Mel is in central California. Evaporative coolers function very well for us. It was 104 outdoors the other day, 72 indoors.
Another thing about living at 6000 feet with humidity routinely in the 10- to 20 percent range: diurnal temperature drops. I don’t get to use diurnal in a sentence very often, so I’m not exactly sure it is the right word. What I mean is 100 degrees during the day drops to 50 degrees at night. The thin, dry air simply cannot hold the heat. All you gotta do is survive until the sun goes down. Similar situation when outside during the bright midday sun: just step into the shade (if there is any). Plus, added bonus: millions of stars at night. If you go in for that kind of stuff.
Robert
My HVAC unit is the newer high efficient type and it still draws 6.720KW per hour at 21¢ per KW. My two evap coolers draw .25KW each on high .095KW on low. As long as the evaps keep the house cool we don’t use the HVAC. When the humidity is over 28% at 105°+ we crank up the $$$$$ HVAC, luckily that doesn’t happen very often.
We find the constant cool breeze more comfortable than an on and off HVAC system. The only time we run the evap fan on high is when my wife is heating up the kitchen.
Mel
My Model Railroad
http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/
Bakersfield, California
I went on an OPSIG layout tour of the San Jose CA area some years ago. EVERY layout (3-4, as I recall) was in a 2 car garage. Here’s one:
http://www.yosemitevalleyrr.com/modeling/layout-plans
I’ve seen a few houses where they built a full room above the two car garage. Hey! You can still park two of your SUV’s!
My dream is to buy my neighbor’s house and replace it with something more attractive, like a 4000 square foot flat roofed industrial building.
Ed
As you know, because of the topography the Bay Area is full of micro-climates. South San Jose summer temps are much higher than a place like San Mateo, for example, despite only being about 30 miles apart – because we are relatively far from the bay’s moderating influence. Davis is hotter still.
Those work like the evaporative units Mel is describing and I think would work OK in most parts of Arizona, except during the summer monsoons (seriously, it’s a thing).
I addressed that part with my term ‘polyed’, but it’s unusual to see it that way. We add ‘polyvinyl’ sheeting over the studs with the insulation sprayed already or the fiberglas bats already place between the studs. The poly is what is known in the industry as a ‘vapour barrier’, Canadian spelling. The sheets must be taped at their meeting edges, just like one tapes sheets of drywall and then muds. The better the taping, including around wall out
Bryon, at my wife’s suggestion, we purchased three 8’ bamboo rollup blinds, the ones with the string and pulleys we typically find at hardware and home builders’s supply stores. I already have the insulated garage doors, and the walls in the new train room are probably near R-20. But, in July and August the sun beats on the smaller yard garage door, the lone window in that room, and on the man door that provided access from the yard previously…still does. So, it’s a thin wall solar-wise, and that really makes my air conditioner pull a long day’s work if I want to be in there.
We mounted them on boards or window trim so that they hang mostly in the sunlit part of the wall, and so that there is a thermal break. They hang about 1 full inch away from the siding. It happily makes a great difference, a surprising difference. My wife got major props from me for that one.