Model Railroading....a fine art?

Model Railroader General Discussion (Model Railroader)
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My wife was also an artist and she would critique my work and did not pull any punches. This was a great help. I once had a qualified art instructor visit my house and call my work art. Be that as it may, I recently visited a highly rated art gallery in Memphis. They were displaying works from many long time local artists and one exibit combined a barn like structure in approximate HO scale weathered ala John Allen which was intergrated into a conventional artisitic background. It was a very appealing work of art.

My favorite art form is Impressionisim. My goal has been to create an impression of old time steam logging. I have been trying this over many years but so far have failed. I would consider my work to be a 5 on the scale of 10

A number of years ago I was displaying my HOn30 modules at a show. One of the modules there was a scene of Ice cutting on a frozen lake. It was very simple. Just an ice cutter alone with a wagon in the middle of a frozen lake but the impression the scene made was incredible.

Yes I believe model rairoading can be an art form.

Peter Smith, Memphis

22

I for one call my small self contained micro-layouts “Kinetic Sculpture” and fully consider them “art”.

They are self contained creations that are crafted and built by my hand as an expression of my imagination. Explain to me how that is any different than traditional sculpture or art, of course its art.

Malcolm Furlow once said he treated his layouts as “theater”, with various viewpoint “stagesets” where the observers view of a scene was deliberately designed to emphisis some aspect of it, say a dangeling trestle or decrepit building. I think this is done far more commonly among all model RRs and also further shows that model RRing can indeed be treated as art or theater.

Lets face it, when we are bui

23

In my opinion, Sir Madog started off in the right directoon, but then went off the rails. He nailed the distinction between an art (meant to please aesthetically) and a craft (where aesthetics certainly count, but the primary consideration is utility). Fine art does not have to be pricey or valuable, just intended to please. I have several paintings by unknown artists which are beautiful, but would not fetch much at an art auction – although Monet and Michaelangelo didn’t start off famous either. To that end, cooking is an art, both in it’s presentation and taste (although that doesn’t mean people should be snobby and pretentious about it). Some of us with model railroads don’t aspire to anything higher than the crayon on the refridgerator, others strive for the high end of the spectrum, at which our creations approach art, but are still meant to be functional. That doesn’t make one better. Personally, I take much more pleasure in a well-crafted piece of furniture than I do in Picasso, but this is a very personal thing.

24

Hi guys

Model railroading an art form sorry but err No it is not.

It is creative some will reach the dizzying heights of international recognition most won’t.

As to do I want to own a part of one of these modelling greats layouts built by there own hand no.

Though I do have some of the commercial manufactured G&D cars because I like them.

I already own a modelling greats layout mine.

This is just a simple fact because there is not any one member of this forum that does not own

a modelling greats layout (insert your name here).

But I still say a model railroad is not art and never will be.

If its anything its engineering and that is not art

regards John

25

John I respectfully have to disagree

I have no reservations considering my micro-layouts art, they are the result of a force of action on my part to create a self expression of my desires, whether others admire or dislike is completely inconsequential. Art is in the eye of the creator, as well as the beholder.

Desirability by others has very little to do with whether something is considered art, I have seen a tremendous amount of work called “art” that is about as desirable as getting shingles. Art is what the artist calls art. The art world is chuck full of the good, the bad, the pretentious, the idiotic, the truly horrible. But its all art, there’s now even a museum dedicated to celebrating bad art called The Museum of Bad Art (original name huh?) and it houses some incredible crap but is still “art” and some of the bad and the stupid, does sell for idiotic prices, simply because someone thinks its a good investment, not because they like it. So art is art because someone calls it art.

So while others may consider most model RRs engineering or craft, I would say that there have been several layouts that most definetly quality as art, Wescott, Selios, Furlow, Olsen, Allen and others, particularly in the micro layout field, some of the micros being built by others are absolute jewels.

BTW Love Picasso, and Van Gogh, I dare say anyone who doesn’t probably has never seen either up close in a museum.

BTW I own a very nice artists copy of this Van Gogh, we call it our Van Faux [:D]

26

The Boston Museum of Fine Arts has a collection of Paul Revere silver, and a collection of colonial furniture. I doubt that either Revere or the colonial cabinetmakers thought of themselves as fine artists. But, a later age thinks their stuff good enough to display in the fine arts museum.

For me, the products of our best workmen, John Allen and George Sellios come to mind, are works of art. My own efforts don’t rise to that level and probably never will. But I enjoy the striving.

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Hello Howard,

Some years ago, I acquired your fabulous book about the Piermont Division " My life whith model trains".

You already speak in this book about fine art in model railroading and I completly agree whith You.

It’ a versatile hobby, where You need many skills but more important, it’s your imagination which construct Your script, in this case Your pike, like a painter which imagine what he is going to paint.

I know very well Your book and I beleive I have read it certainly 20 times.

It serve now as a guide to construct my pike.

Thank You.

Marc from Belgium

28

AS i am fond of doing, I have so done here:

that is to remind us what the Dictionary definition of terms we use actually IS:.

In this case, THe Webster’s New American Dictionary defines “ART” as:

1} a skill acquired by experience or study;

2} a branch of learning, especially the humanities;

3} an occupation requiring knowledge or skill;

4} The use of skill and imagination in the production of things of beauty

If, and I say IF, we consider our models {defined as “being a miniature representation of something”} to be "things of beauty, then , by the fourth definition, it is ART.

What would they be if not?

If we do not consider them things of beauty, then maybe they are “just garbage”?? Would that be correct?? then why, oh why, do we keep them?

It IS obvious that a level of skill of some sort is needed to “create” the “miniature representation” to get it to look “natural” in our mRRing. Varying skills, indeed, are needed to MRR: Wiring, soldering, gluing, painting, building, construction, etc, are all skills needed. SOme master them better than others.

I would argue that even the worst of a “model” {lacking details, size disproportionate to reality} is a “thing of beauty” in its own right.

If scenery actually looks to be a “miniature representation {of nature and citified surroundings”}" then it would be a thing of beauty if we do consider nature and cityscape’s to be “things of beauty”.

To MY interpretation of the situation presented to us for “mental fodder”, MRRING IS ART.

It is creating miniature things of beauty. Two accurate definitions combined.

Now t

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If you need to justify your time spent in the hobby by calling it art, fine or otherwise, then go ahead and do so. Personally, I think that’s just pretentious baloney, but that’s only my opinion.

I’ll concede that many artistic elements go into model railroading, but it’s just a hobby, a pastime. Nothing more.

Some participants are true artisans. In fact, most of us modelers are artisans in one way or another.

But are many of us artists? I don’t think so. But hey, if considering yourself one makes you feel better about playing with trains, have at!

30

Years ago when I was attending night school at the local college one of my fellow students was working for a commercial modeling company.

At that time they were very busy assembling a traveling display depicting various scenes of British Columbia starting with the building of the CPR through Rogers Pass as well as a number of large dioramas depicting various logging and mining scenes.

here were also scenes of the old time engine facilities complete with turntables and roundhouse and coal and sand facilities as well as large trestles and snowsheds, Scenes of rail barges being towed across lakes. There was on scene of the Royal Hudson and its coaches running along the Inlet

I was astounded that he was being paid to build model railroad dioramas.

Now those diorama’s I would certainly agree were works of art. I and most others who ended up viewing the BC Museum train as it traveled across the Province in 1975.

I remember that many of the dioramas were to have moving locomotives, but with the exhibit being pulled by a steam locomotive across the Province it was decided to make the scenes static.

I remember many of the items ended up being screwed on to the track to keep them from moving… I wonder where the dioramas ended up?

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There was one model railroad (The Great North Road) created by a recognized artist (F. Lee Jaques.) In the process he used many’ “Fool the eye’” tricks taken directly from his skill as a painter and his artist’s eye to generate aesthetic response in his viewers. Superdetail was painted on locos and cars that were actually nothing but simple shapes, and the impression of cryogenic cold around the highest trackwork on the railroad (Ptarmigan Summit) was nothing but light, color and painted shapes.

Art? I think so. But the track plan was NOT designed to please this operator, who wanted passing sidings, industries to switch and an engine terminal to display the motive power.

As for Mr Jaques, he was responsible for the painted backgrounds behind the 3-dimensional displays in the American Museum of Natural History - and many other works. I don’t own any, but I’d like to.

Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)

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Hi V Smith

You present a valid argument for a MRR being art.

However what I believe to be the genesis of our hobby is firmly in the practical engineering camp.

The first railway models where engineered to show non engineers what a coach or other railway item looked like

A three dimensional accurate engineering drawing for want of a better description then you have ship models, architects models all done in the engineering world for much the same reasons.

Then toy trains came along toy trains might be art they certainly are not models engineered or otherwise

Our hobby is the scale representation of a railway where everything is engineered to be the right size shape and work.

Wether or not it pleases the eye is of no importance, but it does have to accurately portray a railway in scale and it does have to work.

So in my opinion its engineering.

Art on the other hand doesn’t have to work, it doesn’t have to make sense, but it does have to be pleasing to the eye.

If your micro layout is a kinetic sculpture WETI then its art and I must say a very nice piece of art as well.

But as art its not a model railroad because, it doesn’t seek to accurately portray in scale a railway

Which is engineering, it seeks to be a piece of art with all that entails.

Now that’s interesting after re reading this blurb before posting it.

It all comes down to the intent of the builder as to if its art or not.

regards John

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Motion picture production- if it includes writing, production design, costume design, research, photography, lighting, art, special effects, directing, editing, computer generated animation, original music score.
But few try to do all that as a hobby.

34

Apart from being a model train manufacturer, I actually have a Bachelor of Fine Arts and a Masters of Art History. I even started a PhD but abandoned it to make trains. I always say if you want to be a model train manufacturer you need to spend 10 years studying art… [:D]

But it does make me a bit of an authority on the subject, and I can definitely tell you that model railroading is a fine art. I have seen layouts that would fit very well in the National Gallery and could, had the builders had any interest in becoming names in the art world and going down that path (it takes a lot of work to be noticed in the art world). Certainly the skills and creativity involved put a lot of the “fine” artists of the last 100 years to shame. So much art today is conceptual, but even on this level I have seen layouts that could be cutting edge in the contemporary art world: layouts that comment on nostalgia and history and the role of technology in the past versus today.

The amazing thing is that I see this incredible work but when I try and convey to the builder what a piece of art he has created he invariably doesn’t recognize his skills or that his work has value as art. So many model railroaders are “accidental artists.”

-Jason

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Jason,

You have captured my thoughts to the letter. Thank you!

HZ

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RC model planes.

RC model boats.

Restoring cars.

Restoring houses.

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Heck !!!, arguing against Jason, [banghead] but here goes any how.[swg]

I view Model Railroading as I do some of the engineering technical assembly drawings and “cut away” diagrams I’ve used over the years, skillfully drawn and some, especially the “cut aways” definitely with the “Wow factor” but art, no !!

Semantics perhaps but either way its not a topic I’m going to get too “het up” over.[:D]

Cheers, the Bear.

38

I don’t think any Model Railroader pictures themselves as an artist. I was talking to a couple friends last night about this question and we all agree that you can be very good at something and that something could be classified as art but that doesn’t make you an artist.

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Especially restoring cars and houses. I’m restoring a century home and the people that I’ve hired are true masters in their craft. One thing I’ve noticed is they truly enjoy what they are doing. My friend TA462 restores old automobiles and to see his passion for it and his enjoyment he gets out of it got me thinking. Maybe to create a work of art you really need to enjoy what you are doing, you need to have a true passion for it.

40

I been thinking (very dangerous) I never seen model railroading as a “art” I have seen it as a engineering hobby since we do a lot of building.I’ve also seen it as a bottomless money pit.

If model railroad is a “art” then wouldn’t slot car tracks with scenery be a “art”? How about the folk that build various types of dioramas? Is that a supposed “art”? How about the miniature worlds,dungeons etc the gamers build for their “quests” is that a art? None of these past times is a “art” including model railroading.Bottomless money pits yes,arts no…

If one’s layout is a work of “art” why is it when one decides to build a new layout or when a person passes from this life to the next why does their layout end up in the nearest Dempsey Dumpster? You certainly wouldn’t throw a piece of art into the trash you would sell it at a flea market for a few bucks…