Lets face it the economy is bad. Prices are soaring. It seems the manufactures are intent on creating more realism(which is fine) but charging prices very few people can afford. This has forced me into being very selective as to what I do with this hobby. More time is spent on planning and scenery than cars and locos. I am building my new layout in sections for easy movement(learned that the last time). Want a larger layout? Build a couple of modules. Money is good this month and there is room??? Build a couple modules. The good news for MR is I am reading the magazine more and in finer detail. The bad news for their advertisers is that I am buying very little. Why? See sentences one and two. Another factor would be parts of the hobby I enjoyed are being taken away. I loved kits! Building kits and car kits. They were inexpensive and when you were done no matter what you did they still had your personality. Sure this hobby has never been cheap but one could live within their means and still enjoy it. It is much harder to do today. I watch Ebay and go to shows. I buy things in the clearance section at the local hobby shop and even try to trade when I can. The industry needs entry level quality products that people can afford. Not RTR but real modeling products.
I agree with the kit comments. I love building car kits. It does not really take much time to do, it makes getting all the bugs out of the car easier to do as the car is being assembled and you have a piece of you in the car when you are done. Dont get me wrong the RTR stuff is good too but leave the kits to those who still love to BUILD a model. For those who dont want to spend $20-$40 for the ability to open a box and drop the car on the rails. Let us play with our fiber washers, glue, and others.
Another trend I am starting to find disturbing is that most of the manufacturers are starting to over detail the models making them more delicate and IMO less desirable. I love the see through steps and the realistic looking cat walks on the tops of hoppers but I also may need to touch my car from time to time to clean it or my little kids may run off with it (even cheapo less detailed cars can suffer damage when this happens tho). Let us decide the level of detail we want by offering say Kits, RTR(kit details but prebuilt) and craftsman kits or RTR.
The kits would be inexpensive cars and what not just like the Athearn BB and Walthers used to do. Good details, fun to build and inexpensive.
RTR would basicly be the kits already build for an extra charge, little to no work needed to get them on the rails.
Craftsman kits, highly detailed and more involved construction for the hobbiest that wants a challenge and authentic details. Higher cost yes but worth the penny to those who want the details.
Craftsman RTR. Same as the kits again but already assembled for a fee just like standard RTR. This allows people that want the high level of detail but may not be able to build at that level to also enjoy the finer rolling stock. Woodland Scenics has a few buildings that fit this level, I own one and I feel it was worth the extra coin, and I don’t feel bad when I think of how much I paid for it
This hobby is actually quite cheap if you plan ahead and learn how to build without spending a fortune, example white foam instead of blue or pink if its free (if you cover it with plaster cloth, nobody will ever know, and plaster cloth can be as little as $1 a roll). As far as rolling stock and such, e-bay has meant I no longer have room for any rolling stock, I recently picked up a case of MDC cars for $6, even the best cars can be had for under $20 any day of the week. I personally collect Atlas Billboard reefers and have way past 25 at an average cost of $12.
I take a slightly different approach, based on a Westcott editorial in Model Railroader in the 1960s. I strive to keep my hobby cost per hour in line with my monthly hobby budget and expected hobby time available. For $40 per month, and typically 20 hours per month of hobby time, I have to keep the cost around $2/hour to have hobby money enough to cover my time. Of course, train running time is “free”, so if I spend half my time running trains, and the other half model and layout building, I’m up to $4 per hour.
Note that a “shake-the-box” kit is going to be on the order of $10 per hour when coupler replacement, truck tuning, and weathering are figured in, along with all the supplies - even if I get the kit for $5 at a sale.
A die-cast steam loco kit is going to end up around $4 per hour, figuring $80 for the kit and another $80 in detail parts, paint, gears, motor, etc. A craftsman car kit is $30-$40 for the kit (some are cheaper than others) and parts, with at least 10 hours in assembly, detailing, painting, and decaling. Both get me well within my ball park, and provide me relatively cheap, wholesome entertainment and satisfaction.
Yes, I too have had to drastically cut back my spending. I’ve saved a good deal of track from my last layout and am saving it for the time I have some space to build another - seems year after year, I keep finding there is no space. I may have to resort to clubs etc to run for another couple years. I still collect rolling stock and engines but only one here and one there, far less than ever before in years.
Go to train shows, there are still bargains, and mail order etc. Train shows still have quite a few kits too if you need rolling stock at a bargain. Surprisingly, many vendors are keeping high prices on some older items too, and the boxes they are in just get worn to tatters as they travel from show to show with the same stock they refuse to unload at cheaper prices. I just saw Walthers “kit” 89’ TOFC flat cars at a show for $18 yet you could also find nice Walthers RTR nicely detailed 89’ flat cars for about the same price. Duh! /Rant
Point is you can pay alot or find bargains still so that is what you have to do in these times. Yes, it means some of us can’t run out and buy the nice MTH Daylight passenger trains we lust after or Walthers UP passenger trains, etc etc, or Santa Fe El Capitan… oh well. I’ve been bless with lots of trains so I’ll h ave to enjoy many other trains from afar!
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Sure this hobby has never been cheap but one could live within their means and still enjoy it. It is much harder to do today. I watch Ebay and go to shows. I buy things in the clearance section at the local hobby shop and even try to trade when I can. The industry needs entry level
Compared to me you guys are millionaires. My total monthly income is less than $700, before bills. After paying the bills, buying gas, groceries, meds and medical supplies I MIGHT have $20 or $30 left. I could buy one or two Bachmann freight cars or maybe one structure or a little in the way of scenic material. If I save for three of four months I could buy a Bachmann DCC loco or one of the cheaper DC locos from Walthers.
Jeff, try living in the west Washington DC suburbs on slightly more than double that… Its about all I have left after the ex gets her cut. NY courts are having a laugh. I’m basically in your boat budget wise for the last year, breaking even - can’t even afford health insurance for my wife. Hopefully my situation will improve but for now, my wife and I are stuck in a tiny basement without a real kitchen etc. If you have space for a layout, you are in better shape than me! I know the last couple years has been hard for a lot of people, thats why when I see people snapping up the new passenger trains with all the “trimmings”, I think "at least a few people are surviving the world economic down turn pretty well!
The other thing to remember is the long-term value.
Don’t get me wrong, I love my kids but take them to the movies then dinner afterwards and you’ve spent enough in three or four hours to have bought that new Atlas diesel you want.
The movie will be forgotten by Tuesday, the engine will give you pleasure for 20 years.
The local Home Depot has a scrap wood cart that rolls around the place. Many times there are 4ft long 2x4’s in it for 50 cents. I have to cut a normal 2x4 to that length anyway and the 8ft boards are $2 or more. Buy them already cut and save half price!
I am really looking at prebuilding in card board my structures before real construction. It seems like it would be great in making the final decision on a purchase. I am also thinking of trying some scratch building.
A few years ago I would plunk down $75 dollars for a Proto 2000 E unit. Now at around $200 nope! So looking at the shows and for bargains is the thing to do.
If a lot of people look at things the way I do change is coming!
We’ll see! I don’t expect the sky high prices on the new loco’s to stop getting higher, but we may see fewer products offered if people can’t afford $200 per loco. Its nuts!
I can only say that I’m glad that Athearns SD45’s and tunnel motors could still be had for well under $100 street price, for the time being anyway.
As for new rolling stock, I sure wish Athearn would make the PC&F cars in their RTR line rather than charging nearly $40 msrp as Genesis. They are offering the old PC&F as RTR now for less and they are virtually the same cars, slightly different doors.
Back in college I checked with housing construction sites for scrap lumber - ask them and they will sometimes let you scavage their dumpsters for pieces of partical board or other scrap wood. Surprising how it adds up and is usable.
There are many beautiful things available these days at high prices that is for sure.
But as I go to train shows and swap meets the thing that strikes me is that as the hobby ages (swap meets are becoming estate sales) and as more people thin out their collections as part of changing over to DCC, it is possible to spend little so long as you do not insist on having the latest stuff, and have some discipline as to just how much stuff you need.
And it is still possible to spend a few hours of an evening engaged in projects that cost little or nothing. Starting with the Summer 2009 issue, the NMRA Midwest Region Waybill has carried my quarterly column The Frugal Modeler – with the goal of showing a simple little project that can be done with stuff already in your house.
It isn’t going to turn a table leg into a Big Boy but the idea is that if a few hours of actual model railroading activity can be literally free, it might take some of the sting away from current pricing. And for someone who is simply not able to justify buying ANYTHING, it might keep your hand in the game until things improve.
RMax, if the economy is so bad and prices are soaring and if very few people can afford the higher end stuff then don’t you think you are in the wrong hobby? If the manufacturers weren’t selling all this mega detailed stuff then they wouldn’t be making it would they? Way to many people on this site voice their opinion about the high cost of model railroading and that they can’t afford it but stay in the hobby. I don’t get it, LOL. I would love to get my pilots license and get myself my own airplane, that would be a great hobby. But guess what, I can’t afford it. I could go on some private airplane forums and cry and complain week after week about the high cost of maintaining an airplane but I don’t. Why? Because I would be laughed off the forum and probably be banned from it. Maybe that’s what the MR staff and moderators should discuss, start banning people that bring up this rediculous topic week after week. Then we can FINALLY stop discussing how the hobby is out of reach for most people and maybe start discussing ACTUAL hobby topics.
Why would you pay $200 when some on-line retailers have them for less than $100? Not to mention auction and similar sites. A quick Google search will lead you to the right places, as it did me. The Walthers list price is less than $200 for a DC E7 unit. Nobody with a clue pays list.
If you want to make a point about prices, use street prices, not list. Only the uninformed or masochistic pay list. You guys always compare what you paid at a train show ten years ago with list price today.
How many of these bellyaching price threads do we need? There was just one last week, right? It is not the cheapest hobby. Deal.
I save a ton on scenery materials by using natural materials and learning from these forums and You Tube how to make things myself more cheaply. I have never bought a manufactured tree and never will when they are so easy to make and IMHO are better looking than most store bought. Also try Michaels medium and coarse sand rather than official ballast at the LHS and plastic and dried flowers that can be excellent basis for trees and shrubs. Free lumber from home building sites (be sure to ask first) from their scrap piles. Used brass track on EBay, although the prices on brass switches has skyrocketed recently for some reason. Maybe us retired guys have more time than the younger crowd to make our own things but isn’t that what a hobby is all about?
From the figures I’ve seen, the hobby skews older and that group is likely to have more disposable income which may be driving the current offerings. Many have less time to spend on the hobby and that is going to impact kit building. The neat thing our passion is that it is scalable. You can have a lot of fun with a docksider and a dozen freight cars on a 2 x 8 track plan. Clubs and modules are also a great way to spread the costs. Not everyone needs a huge home layout and hundreds of pieces of rolling stock. And, there is scratchbuilding for those who have the time. I wanted an out of production building, so I took a deep breath and ordered up a bunch of Evergreen styrene and Tichy doors and windows. Minimal cost (within your monthly budget figure) and, while I had to make some things twice, it gave me hours of pleasure and looks better than the kit would have. Lots of options for you. Enjoy!