Modeling the "road less modeled."

Model Railroader General Discussion (Model Railroader)
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Ironrooster mentioned it, and then it came up in (WARNING: Spoiler Alert!) Tony Koester’s column in the July MR:

Modeling “the road less modeled.”

I admit, as a Pennsy man I am anything but unique. There are literally thousands of PRR modelers. Some stretches of the Pennsy have been reproduced down to the last signal post by a dozen or more people. My “proto-lanced” Middle Division is completely… well… common.

As I plan for the future I have wrestled with ways to model a stretch of the Pennsy’s 4-track main, relying on the work of many others who have done the same. Part of the reason I’m shying away from that idea now is because of the sheer volume of traffic and staging I’d need to reproduce, but also a big part is that it’s been done to death.

Now, maybe I shouldn’t care. It is, after all, my layout. But, if 30 other guys had done the exact same thing, I would feel like a Johnny-come-lately.

Part of the lure of modeling the PRR’s Northern Central branch in southern PA is that fewer folks have done it. Sure, I can name a few guys who have or are planning to do it, but it’s still a much less modeled stretch than, say, Horseshoe Curve.

If I wanted really obscure, I could model the PRR’s Quarryville branch, which left the PRR electrified main at Lancaster, PA and ran south through town (on Water Street) and then south through farm country (right past my uncle’s farm!) to Quarryville. At Quarryville, it passed under the PRR’s electrified Atglen & Susquehanna high-speed freight route, although it never physically connected there. The line died in 1972 under Penn Central thanks to damage from Hurricane Agnes.

Here’s the trouble… There’s almost nothing out there in the literature about it. So, there’s a compromise. The road les modeled… a bles

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Snip

Dave Said

Here’s the trouble… There’s almost nothing out there in the literature about it. So, there’s a compromise. The road les modeled… a blessing and a curse. To be truly unique, you will have far fewer resources.

Well the easiest thing to do is copy something from a photo. That’s why i think Free Lancers are special People

Just muster up some imagination and go for it

But be careful because you coming closer to being one of " Those People"

[swg]

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I have to agree with your assessment on the “road less traveled”. I am looking to model the Burlington in and around the Omaha area, but not necessarily Omaha itself. I know there are modelers who’ve done it, but it seems the majority of Q modelers cover Chicago, Galesburg, the K-Line (along the Mississippi river), and Denver.

I think I’m going to pick some specific locations that may be widely separated but will offer some interesting operations, especially interchange with a couple of other midwest RRs.

I like the idea of the research involved, it does take some looking but the information is out there. Fortunately, many little towns have kept very good records in their historical societies. I’ve even got to the point that I’m looking for specific trucking companies that ran in the area in the late 60’s to help set the time and location.

I like the challenge of the road “maybe” less traveled.

Rick

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Good point. Many people model the same road and it somethimes get’s boring in a way. But it’s going to heppen if you model a proto-type. Now if you came up with a free laced line, but based on a real railroad, then you don’t have those problums. But does it really matter if someone models the same Subdivsion? You all have you diffrent track arrangments, and secnery that makes it uniqe in your own way. If I told 10 people to model the same Subdivision, in the same space, It would all look diffrent. It’s all personal tastes. In a way you can madel the same line, but still be diffrent.

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I have wrestled with these same issues. Because of my interest in research and history, I have found that the most satisfying approach for me is to model a specific protoype at a specific time. Jack Burgess’s Yosemite layout would be an ideal for me. I like operation though too, so I have to find a compromise between accuracy and operation interest. My last layout, the FM&P division of the B&O depicted less than 2 miles of a specific track though Morgantown WV, (home of my previous employer WVU). I had to reseach it and walk the railtrail numerous times to get what I wanted. But ut worked great for operation too and we were able to use real paperwork from 1950 on the B&O. Now that I am back in Nevada (go Wolfpack) I am starting over and trying to decide between the V&T which is modeled frequently and the Tonopah & Tidewater which as far as I can tell has almost hardly ever been modeled. I am leaning towards the later as it is different and definitely the road less traveled. Doing some research is the key. - Nevin

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I think that even if you did model what someone else has done yours will be different. You will look at different angles, features, etc. Granted the less information there is about a line or area the more the challange. Ether way it’s your doing.

You have brought up some very interesting subjects. Keep at it.

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Dave,

If you are looking for something Pennsy that no one has modelled before, you could model the division that served the DELMARVA Pennisula. I am not even sure which division it was, but I ran across a book about it at Barne’s and Nobles a few months ago. Lots of good pictures of PRR steam serving the area all of the way down to Cape Charles. The book was Eastern Shore Railroad (VA) (Images of Rail).

I thought about doing it, but I am most interested in N&W, Southern, and C&O as they came through the Richmond area.

Just a thought,

Kevin

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Yes, but…

Unique is but one of my “druthers.”

I need passeneger service. That’s why I dropped the idea of the PRR’s Bald Eagle Branch which ran near my alma mater Penn State. DELMARVA did have the “Blue Diamond,” but I’m more enamored of the sleeper connections between DC and Harrisburg. NCRR provides a good mix of passenger trains.

Another druther is coal trains. Nothing says PRR quite like a coal drag of red hoppers. The NCRR branch had coal trains headed south to Baltimore.

A con to my choice is that by era, the NCRR had been signle tracked between York and Parkton. I like double-track ops. But, single track will almost force me to signal the layout and operate by schedule and priority, so in that sense it will provide more discipline for me than just turning on the trains.

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Well, you don’t have to look for the obscure to model the “line less travelled”. How many people model the IC in the 1930s, or the CB&Q in the 1940s, or the Penn Central in the 1960s, or the Illinois Terminal in the 1920s, or the NYC in Indiana in the 1940s, or the ATSF in Illinois in the 1930s, or the L&N in the 1940s, or the Mo Pac in the 1930s, or the B&O in the 1890s, or the LS&MS, or the Pere Marquette in the 1930s, or the, or the, or the, or the…

There are a LOT of VERY good, and VERY well documented prototypes out there that few if any modelers actually choose to work with. None of the examples I’ve cited above are anything near obscure, yet they seem to have almost no following in the hobby, which chooses to model the ultra-well known (PRR, ATSF, SP, UP, D&RGW narrow gauge), or the REALLY oddly obscure (O&W, Rutland, Maine two footers). I sometimes think that the vast majority of proto-influenced modelers in this hobby are complete sheep.

Case in point are the throngs of D&RGW narrow gauge modelers. The D&RGW was a marginal line propped up by occasional traffic surges and construction, and which survived for at least 15 years longer than it should have. Sure the scenery’s nice, but what kind of traffic density and operations are there? Not much. ow about a few of those guys do a little research on narrow gauge lines in the United States, and start modeling some of the LARGE, traffic heavy, and operationally interesting lines that cross-crossed the Eastern half of this country from 1870 to 1895? How about an all narrow gauge consortium from Toledo to Houston for a start?

(BTW: I don’t model what is considered mainstream, although each and every line is a Class One: the NKP, IC, ITC, P&E and GM&O through central Illinois in 1949. All steam, all passenger and freight lines, and even an interurban! Yet I can count on both hands the number of modelers who are attempting to do even ONE of my prototypes)

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Well, heck, if you wanted to go places where few have traveled, try narrow gauge trolleys, or Russian steam, or a monorail layout with switches. [:)] Or if you really want to go out there, try modeling the future.

I model what “Model Railroader” once called, “A seldom modeled prototype”…The New Haven RR. Of course, the couple thousand members of the New Haven Railroad Historical & Technical Association practically had a collective stroke when they read that little tidbit some 20 years ago. I don’t want to say that we NH fans carry a grudge, but this line was quoted as recently as the 2004 NHRHTA Annual Convention banquet in a speech by one of the Directors.

What was especially amusing is that if you go back and read the old issues from the 30’s and 40’s, the NH was in the top 10 in popularity in MR polls.

Paul A. Cutler III

Weather Or No Go New Haven

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Now I know there are some folks out there that will pick the most obscure road just to be the only one doing it.

For me, it’s not the first priority. I’d be quite happy with my 4-track Middle Divsion if I had the space, time, and money to do it right. Of course, in PRR circles, my layout would always be compared to, say, Neal Schorr’s or Jerry Britton’s layout (to name only two of many).

Therefore the idea of being somewhat unique is attractive. But for me, individuality by itself is not sufficient to determine my prototype. But coupled with other pros like manageable staging and operations, variety of motive power, scenery, etc., it might just be enough to tip the balance in favor of a particular line.

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You don’t have to model obscure or semi-obscure prototypes to model the “road less modeled”.

It’s just that so many people seem to glom onto the same general locations when modeling a prototype railroad. Why do Pennsy modelers have to do the 4 track main line? Surely as big as Pennsy was, there were single track lines that were fairly heavily traveled and used some fair sized steam power.

New York Central ran quite a few passenger trains to Lake Placid well into the 50’s. Maybe it’s not the “Water Level Route”, but at least you could run a Pacific or two. Seems to me there was an NYC line in West Virginia as well.

Sherman Hill and its environs seems to be the location of choice for UP modelers. Why not the Blue Mountains in Oregon? In steam you could see the larger UP steam classes with the exception of Big Boy. Why not the branch to Spokane? How about the line over Medbury Hill in Idaho?

SP? Why bother with Tehachapi or Donner? Why not San Jose, CA? Neat station. Lots of passenger trains and switching. Don’t want quite so much passenger traffic? How about Salinas and the lettuce traffic (not to mention the sugar beet refinery at Spreckels). The Santa Paula branch was capable of handling large engines and was used on occasion as a detour when the line through Santa Susana was closed due to a derailment or tunnel fire.

A little digging will come up with some interesting, if not world famous, locations that could serve as a good starting point for an interesting model railroad.

Andre

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Well a Pennsy line – less traveled - is the Lowgrade line from East Brady, PA to Driftwood, PA.

This is about the most obscure line in all of the Pennsy system lines as no one ever did any documentation and few pictures are around that I have been able to find other than the ones our members of the Clarion MRR club and our NMRA Division 11 group have done over the years.

There are way more pictures around of the Pittsburgh and Shawmut line (which crosses the Lowgrade line in Brookville) and the Buffalo and Pittsburgh RR.

So I guess this is one of those curse things. But wait a minute I live here and can just hop into the car and run down and shoot a truck load of pictures and know I will get it right as it is local.

Some modelers love to build layouts of railroad that a million others have done and this is fine if you like to be a follower.

But try and go out on your own and do something no one else has done let alone a prototypical one and then add all of the other six railroads that interchange with it. Now we are a road less traveled!

Do this with Operations in mind in the 1975 to 1985 time period when coal was king and the Lowgrade line ran up to 10 – loaded 100 car trains every other day plus the empties and any mixed freight trains and you can get a fairly busy layout.

True it is not like the 4 track main line but at least you can model it somewhat realistically as most modelers don’t have the enormous room available to do the PRR 4 track mainline operations real justice in HO.

BOB H – Clarion, PA

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I model Rio Grande standard gauge steam, which as far as I know, seems to be pretty high on the “Less Modeled” scale–at least as far as this forum is concerned. Okay, I don’t model it in Colorado or Utah, rather on a fictional extension to California, but that’s my choice. I know there are other Rio Grande standard-gauge modelers out there–I’ve seen and admired photos of their layouts, but as far as I can tell, they’re all pretty much diesel modelers. Except for one F-3 AB set, I’m strictly steam, and my Rio Grande steam are all models of actual prototypes (except for a couple of Missabe Yellowstones–which the Rio Grande borrowed during WWII, so I’m safe even there), and numbered and lettered accurately for both their classification and the decade in which I’m using them (not that many “Flying Rio Grande” decals on the tender, more of the “Denver & Rio Grande Western” with the tricolored herald).

So, in my case, I’d say Yah, I’m modeling the “Road Less Modeled.” Rio Grande standard gauge steam during the 'forties.

Tom [:)]

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Here is a picture of “the other PRR curve” just northeast of Altoona near Bellwood, PA. Who would have thought!

http://kc.pennsyrr.com/photos/images/pc_bellwoodcurve.jpg

As neat as it would be to model the Horseshoe Curve, it is possible to use this 2-track Pennsy mainline as prototype inspiration. Plus: Two tracks can be easier to duplicate as opposed to a 4-track mainline with the real estate benchwork available to the modeler.

Bellwood Curve qualifies as a Pennsy “road less modeled.”

Here’s the source Keystone Crossings page…

http://kc.pennsyrr.com/photos/index.html

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“When you follow your bliss… doors will open where you would not have thought there would be doors, and where there wouldn’t be a door for anyone else.” Joseph Campbell

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If I were a PRR man, and I was for a long time… I would pick the Frederick Secondary, ambling from Hanover through Littlestown and Taneytown to Frederick MD for a connection with the B&O.

Single track, mostly aggrarian traffic, some passenger connections, and no stone arches… Hardly the typical PRR profile.

But it did have a couple of these…

and the all important WM interchange at Keymar… There was also a branch that went into Union Bridge to serve Lehigh Cement, so there’s a good source of on-line traffic.

Lee

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AS you know, I’m trying to put together a PRR road less travelled, but I am hitting a brick wall. Although I have found maps of the rails, And now with a couple Sanborn maps, I have a sense of trackage and traffic, I cannot find any pictures of the area of town I’m trying to model. Only a small number of the buildings remain as the whole area was flattened to make the city hall complex. Even the streets have been changed.

On the other hand, the B&O station, three blocks away, has been named a histirocal building and is now a resturaunt, but there are plenty of pictures of the B&P station from history.

Anyway, the more obscure, the tougher it gets.

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True, but you could also argue that the more obscure it is, the more you can get away with!

I’ve always been an “overall effect” modeler. The only two things on my layout that are truly representative of WM prototype are the tower at Maryland Junction, and the train order office at Shaw. But by using the right visual “seasonings”, most of the layout looks like the WM looked.

I wouldn’t worry about building your town board for board. A couple of key elements will do the trick, and anyone who’s familiar with those elements will have no trouble identifying the town. For those who are not, it doesn’t matter anyway.

Always think in terms of a theatre set. It doesn’t have to actually be there, it just has to look like it’s there. If something doesn’t support the main action (a building with a siding, or a depot or bridge) or contribute to the overall scene (like a river, landform, notable structure like a town hall or other identifier) then it can be either a generic kit building or not there at all.

Lee

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I think it’s safe to say I am probably the only Southern Railway modeler that models the modern day. I think it’s a great mixture. I like the Southern Railway paint scheme and I love modern day engines. It was a no brainer once I met another freelancer doing the same thing. It opens up a whole new world, and it quite fun as well. So then I guess you could say I am a total freelancer but I like to think of myslef as a Prototype modeler who is using his modelers license and alot of imaginiation.

-Smoke