Is there a rule that says that steam locos pulling passenger excursions have to have a diesel escort ?.. The reason I ask is because in most of the excursion video I have there’s a diesel either behind or in front of the steam loco.
Thanks in advance.
Tracklayer
At least one reason is protection. Even modern steam locomotives are getting old, having the assist means saving some wear and tear. Additionally, if the locomotive were to break down, the train can still be moved.
There may be operating rules around that as well, but I don’t know much about that.
I don’t think there’s any FRA requirement for a diesel engine to be tagging along with a steam excursion locomotive, but perhaps the operators of the excursion have had problems and needed the diesel as backup, or their train is too heavy for the steamer to pull without help.
The diesel could also be there to provide electrical power to the coaches if the steam engine’s dynamo isn’t up to the task.
The Grand Canyon Railway, Cumbres & Toltec, and Durango & Silverton hardly ever have a diesel engine in their consists.
Tracklayer, last week Trains and Locomotives on RFDTV had a feature on 614; at one point they showed an excursion over Sand Patch with a diesel assist on the point and it was pointed out in the accompanying narrative that this was because of the severity of the grade. This thing was hauling twenty or more cars and thats a LONG TRAIN.
We may wish to believe otherwise but 80 inch drivered steam locomotives are going to be slippery; Pennsy’s T1s required a switcher to get it out of Crestline, Ohio.
Union Pacific has put enough into the 844 and 3985 that they trust them without diesel protection. The 844 and the 4449 were double headed from Portland to Seattle in May without diesel protection also.
When I was visiting the 844 while she was in La Grande, OR on her way west for the same excursion, I was talking to a crew member and asked about a diesel in the consist, it was there not to provide power or protection, but rather to provide dynamic braking in the Blue Mts, so as not to burn up a lot of brake shoes holding the train back on the downgrades.
Along with the previously mentioned reasons, dynamic braking in mountainous terrain is just one more reason why a steam excursion may have a “DISEASEL” along with it.
In 1980 I rode an excursion behind C&O 614 from Cumberland, MD, to Terra Alta, WV, and back via Seventeen Mile Grade. The train had 22 cars, but we had no helper westbound out of Cumberland. On the return trip we did pick up a brand spankin’ new Chessie GP40-2 to lead the 614 down the grade. The issue here was using the Geep’s dynamic braking to augment the 614’s air brakes.
On Frisco 1522’s last excursions out of St. Louis several years ago, an Amtrak P42 was coupled discretely at the rear of the 25 car trains. It’s purpose was twofold: the P42 provided head end power to the air conditioned cars in the consist. It also assisted the 1522 in turning the train on a wye prior to returning to St. Louis.
in addition to adding dynamic braking, a diesel is often added to the train if the steamer does not have the correct signal control hardware for the line that it is operating on. the UP the locos have Mu control stands to operate an extra diesel when added to the train for braking/ extra horsepower if needed, and the excussion equipment has an independent head end power unit and steam generator in the first baggage/crew carto run the cars.
I just related a story in the firebox thread about a stoker breakdown that took 614 out of commission during one of the Port Jervis excursions. Diesel backup was required for just such an occasion, but normally they ran well ahead of 614 to avoid ruining any photo ops.
I don’t know where that grade was that RT spoke of, but 614 pulled up to 25 coaches on that run without even breaking a sweat (ok, any more of a sweat). The only wheel spin was when Ross Rowland was showing off. [:-,]
[Edit] Forgot to mention that 614 is equipped with a booster motor in the trailing truck, giving it up to an additional 15,000 lbs. T.E. on startup. The starts were so smooth you would never have known there was steam on the head end from the motion alone.
I think dynamic braking is/was the main issue. When N&W 611 was being towed backwards to Roanoke on her innaugural excursion, due to not being able to turn on the Norfolk loop track, the modern diesel broke down and they had to stop a coal drag and rob another diesel out of that consist to pull 611 and the broken diesel on back to Roanoke.
Thanks for all the replies and info guys. I very much appreciate it.
Tracklayer
In the case of at least several of the Milwaukee Road 261 excursions, these are, technically, Amtrak trains, taking advantage of Amtrak’s liability insurance coverage, and running as extras. That, and the passenger cars set up to Amtrak standards need air conditioning, lights, etc, that the Genesis unit provides. As far as emergency power goes, that is probably a factor although the track record is that the Genesis units on 261 excursions seem to break down a lot, while the 4-8-4 just soldiers on.
Some of us remember the early days of Amtrak when Amtrak insisted that any passenger car it ran had to not only be up to its standards (HEP, roller bearing trucks, etc) but also painted consistently with Amtrak, so the red white and blue took over some classic old paint schemes even on historic cars. Thankfully they no longer adhere to that rule, and the 261 excursions are now very colorful trans with plenty of cars in old Milwaukee Road colors.
Dave Nelson
On the Great Smoky Mountain Railroad they use a steam on the head end on the out trip with a diesel pulling up the rear (I think the diesel is a GP9, vintage in itself). On the return trip the diesel leads, that way the steam doesn’t have to be turned.