Two other issues to consider. I’m fortunate to regularly operate a layout that runs many 40 foot long freight trains (70-85 cars), up 2% grades. Being PRR, all help is pushing, no mid-train help. The challenge is that at these train lengths, the momentum gets to be significant, unlike shorter model trains. Train handling becomes a signficant challenge. The slack is significant, so you need to start the locomotives very slow until the slack is taken up.
If you are modeling relatively flat territory, do not feel obligated to put on mid-train help or pushers - nothing wrong with all of the power up front in non-mountainous areas. Mid-train help is often for rolling grades where mid-train locomotives help to manage the slack. On the MRR I operate, with good train handling you can get away without pushers going up 2% (even at 36 inch radii) - although you’re in trouble if you stop (just like the real railroads). Pushers are often run, even if not required, as a rear end protect - in case the train does break apart you don’t end up with 60 cars running loose down a 2% grade - which never ends well…
DCC (if you use it) throws in two new considerations:
Momentary shorts that cause the DCC circuit breaker to trip can wreak havoc - it is very easy to put cars on the ground if the locomotive suddenly stops. Its like running the train into a wall… This can be amplified if a lot of locomotives are on the same CB, where it may begin to cycle between open and close and open due to inrush currents.
Large quantities of sound equipped locomotives (but more than the 4 you are contemplating) can also cause DCC breaker reset problems. The sound systems require so much start-up current that the DCC breaker trips every time it attempts to reset.
While these issues may not come up, if you find the train is not staying on the track reliably, then watch for power interuptions. The club may want to invest in a multi-circuit DCC breaker if it wants to operate long trains relia
I would use whichever consist you have that has both the power to pull the load and, just as important, work together DEPENDABLY (no stalling or jerking) and keep all the power on the head-end. HO cars, even properly weighted will stringline (pull off the inside of corners, ending up in the scenery or on the floor) or jackknife (pile into each other, ending up in the scenery or on the floor) easily enough under their own weight. Add in the factor of mid-train helpers stopping on a hit-or-miss dead spot or the head-end power in a similar spot and you’re asking for embaressment and broken cars (might have a lokie hit the groung too). I’ve occasionally ran trains up to 250 cars on the Flagstaff Model RR Club layout with heavy HO steam distributed throughout the train. (Each locomotive is DCC equipped with a Soundtraxx Tsunami, I’ve speed tabled each one to match performance with the others. (I do installations for a DCC shop and have spent many, many hours with JMRI Decoder Pro tuning my own locomotives) My most trusted friends each control one locomotive and we only do this when we are alone in the club, so we can hear each other and no other members or the public are distracting us, AND the track and all pick-up wheels are freshly cleaned. Interesting and fun, but even with all precautions in place-quite a few screwed up cars and two lokies have resulted.
BeaNSnifF runs two grain-trains through Flagstaff, Az. weekly, east and westbound. Around 100 loaded hoppers each. One train runs older cars showing wear and is, I would imagine, carrying feed grain. The newer trains cars are all near mint to mint condition and carry grain for-human-consumption. On the westbound (loaded) leg, they have four Dash 9/AC 4400’s up front, three more about the mid-point and two on the hind end. They don’t let any grass grow under them either; they observe the standard speed restrictions on the Cosnino curve just east of Flagstaff, Thru Town and over the Arizona Divide and the Maine/
I test each of my locos on all divisions of the line, and in both directions (lots of grades and curves), then assign “tonnage” ratings for each, varying by direction and division. If you know ahead of time how many cars a loco will handle, it’s much easier to know how many to assign to a train.
You could put them all on the head-end, or some mid-train, or on the rear, too. I run DC, and usually run doubleheaded (steam and/or diesel), but have also run mid-train, multi-position mid-train, and rear helpers. My normal train length is about a dozen cars, limited by passing siding length, although some grades are up to 2.8%. I have, on one occasion, run a 71 car train using 4 remotored Athearn switchers, all on the head-end. In some places, the train was wound around several curves, with different portions going uphill, downhill, or level, all at the same time. Just recently, I ran a 41 car train of hoppers with live loads. Motive power was two modified Athearn U-Boats, both on the front end. Total train weight, excluding the locos, was 21 lbs. While I’m not much interested in DCC for m
Dang! Back in the mid '80s Bill Morris had his four computer motor F units out at the FMRC layout. We had 109 cars behind that set and thought we had something. Everything was DC back then and no chance of distributed power. Times have certainly changed.
Modelers has a tenancy to do things the hard way when running long trains.Was I to run a 100 car train I would use no more then 3 six axle units or 4 four axle units… You see today’s cars are extremely free rolling and will over come the weight resistance easier then before.I have cars that will starting rolling on what I thought was “flat” track.I would not use mid train or end of train helpers because to much can go wrong even with DCC.
I don’t know about that? we had a memeber who regularly rn a 110 car coal train with athearn U30’s up front and sd40’s on th the mid and tail during open openhouse and never had a problem. Even long before DCC and never had a probem. But we had adjustible throttles. Built in the 50’s, when DC was DC, right? DC stands for "Dumb [censored], DCC stands for Dumb [censored] ciensors. We used to run my twlve DRGW TN’s on my buddies 110 BN coal on DC, not now on DCC, more than three and PUFF!!! Goodbye sound, DCC abd anything else Athearn used to offer.
I have pic’s of a 96 car WP train on the Highline between Keddie and Beiber that has 6 F units on the point and another 6 units midtrain. It is my understanding that this arrangement was used for improved braking as well as power distribution. jc5729 John Colley, Port Townsend, WA
Don Gibson has it right, figure the “tonnage” of the 100 car train and provide “model” horsepower at the rate of say one HP per ton. You might want to consider adding dummy units(mid-train peerhaps?) to make the total horsepower correct, it is also more impressive to have multiple locos. This idea of at least one sound engine in the rear is good.
I have a nice video I shot of a coal drag running east through the Tehachapi Loop (no I never figured out why coal would be running east through the loop). This train had at least 9 locos with over 30,000 HP pulling it. I believe it had five engines up front, two mid-train and two helpers pushing. It was an incredible site…and sound.
Bull.I seen 4 Athearn SD40-2 s walk away with a 133 car train…I seen 3 KATO SD40-2s do the same.At one club about I visited 12 years ago they ran a 130 car train with 6 Athearn GP7s.The dummy running the train dumped half the cars due to rough train handling.Gotta have smooth moves when adjusting speed.
I don’t know that figuring ‘tonnage’ is the way to go. Based on last year, I’m figuring I’ll need 4 6 axle locos. This is a modular layout that the 4-H kids set-up. It is basically just 2 loops, there is no real grade or complex track work. I’ll be inspecting all the track work to make certain is was done properly and car won’t derail. Layout is planned to be 12x32 ft.
As I said earlier, we’ll do this gradually. I’ll start with 2 locos and 30-40 cars. We’ll run that for a short time to make certain everything will stay on the rails and that there is no inherent track problems. From there we’ll add cars and repeat the process slowly building the length of the train. As the length and weight increases we’ll add additional locos.
I’m not to worried about overloading the DCC system with sound engines. At most there will be 4 sound units. Everything is treated as one power district so there is no chance of tripping one power district and having helpers in a different district still pushing. While they will be using a top notch DC control system with excellent low speed control and momentum, the plan is to use DCC. As of now I’ll put at the units up front. If that doesn’t seem to work then I’ll switch to mid-train helpers consisted to the front units.
As of now the consist will be Genesis units - BNSF SD70MAC (H2)/BNSF SD75 (warbonnet)/BNSF SD75 (warbonnet)/BN SD70MAC (Executive colors). The other option is a combination of Kato SD40-2s and Atlas C30-7/U33Cs. Both makes run very well together so I’m not too worried about mixing manufacturers. Maybe I’ll dig out some old dummy units and throw them in mid-train to look like helpers.
If you have the option, I would stick with a couple of P2k SD60’s or SD60M’s. The are about the most powerfull model locomotive I know of. I have had one pull a train of nearly the length that you mentioned.
OK, for some reason, I don’t have any problems running 4 or even 5 Atlas engines in any combination especially if they are all the same type. However I found that because Kato engines are already very powerful, they don’t like to run in consists of more than 2 or 3 locos especially on small curves.
With the trains of the size you are talking about, I think you will be asking for trouble using rear helpers especially if they are diff to the headend power. I tried running trains with rear helpers of the same type of engine and with anything more than 30 cars, reliability start to become an issue.
I put the 4 engines on the head end. Ran fine. Used to run midtrain helpers on DC. If all the engines are the same, works fine.
All cars have metal wheels, mostly IM.
3 or 4 of those big motors you have should do the trick, especially on the level. The engines and caboose might not be too far from each other, though. 75 cars still looks impressive on the layout size you will have. 100 cars would be over 60 feet (scale mile) long. You would be amazed how many free-rolling cars an engine can pull on level track, even in 1:1 scale.
Using DC will eliminate some of the DCC problems. If youy are just running one train on the track, that is probably how I would go. My SD40-2s don’t have decoders, either.[] They run good, with the 5 oz extra weight in them.
Most 1:1 scale loaded cars are 130 tons loaded, except for the heavier ones. 100 would be 13,000 tons. 4 SD40-2s (12,000 hp) would handle that well enough. Might not be the fastest run, but you would get there.
I’m not sure what era that your in, sounds modern to me but if you want something impressive, go back to transition era, since N&W were the last to get out of steam, then a couple of Y6B’s out front, and a class A in the center, or a couple of class A’s on head end and an Y6B on the butt end now thats impressive, sorry guys i’m all steam, just make sure they all have good traction tires on, then maybe you might get 200 cars on, have one engine with sound or whistle, if not that idea what about 4 dash 8’s or 9’s, and maybe have one engine with dynamic braking, how about two challengers with a t-1 heavy northern, sky’s the limit so many ideas, i feel that steam is alot more impressive, thanks guys IM OUTA HERE
[On the westbound (loaded) leg, they have four Dash 9/AC 4400’s up front, three more about the mid-point and two on the hind end.]
***Roger, what a cool sight to see on a regular basis. Do they put out heavy vibrations? We hear the trains at night sometimes, but are 20 minutes from the nearest tracks. Perhaps a good thing, considering last year there was a small pile up of derailed hoppers, no more than a dozen. Still exciting for the tiny town of Fairmount.
Well, the big ‘challenge’ was yesterday at the local county fair with the 4-H club. I’m sorry to say due to some environmental issues and some brain fade I was not able to duplicate last years long train run.
Some background info. The layout is a 32’ x 12’ modular layout comprised of modules built by the local 4-H MRR club. I used my NCE PHP to run one of the tracks for the challenge. After testing various locos to use I had to settle on using 4-axle power instead of 6 axle units due to some track work issues like uneven track in the curves that the more rigid 6 axle power wanted to derail on.
We started slowly with 40 MDC 3 bay coal hoppers and 2 Kato GP35s. We then started adding cars and locos. I had 36 Walthers taconite cars to add to the train but could not get to stay on the tracks. Our best theory was that because of the high humidty the dummy couplers wre sticking and would not allow the couplers to slide vertically as the cars went over uneven spots on the track. I also forgot a box of a dozen Accurail 2 bay 55T hoppers So we pulled out everything else I had such as 3 bay and 2 bay covered hoppers and some 50’ boxcars. We ended up with 84 cars and 5 locos - Kato GP35, Atlas GP38, Atlas GP38, Atlas GP7 and Kato GP35. If I’d remembered the Accurail hoopers we would have been at 96 cars and I could have gotten a few more cars from some of the kids to hit 100+.
Once we took off the taconite cars everything ran smoothly. The train ran around the layout for about 15 minutes without a problem (i.e. derailment or uncoupling) until it was time to break the train into 2 sections. The train was about 2/3rds the length of the layout. Not the 100 cars we wanted but still an impressive sight.
If the cars were free-rolling, the 2 Atlas GP38s should have handled it just fine.
The Walthers cars just don’t roll well, except for the latest runs with the metal wheels. That may be the problem. Kadee whisker couplers fit very nicely. Gladhands are optional, as 1:1 scale ore cars have the air hoses mounted up high.
For a while, I was running only 4-axle power, as the club layout track was poor in spots. Then some of the guys took a liking to the DM&IR, which only has 6-axle power. Trackwork has since improved.[;)]
] They run good, with the 5 oz extra weight in them.