Hi Guys,
I just posted the information below on the thread which talks about using Velcro to mount Tortoises. I’ve decided to post this information on a separate thread because I think it’s important. Not to “toot my own horn”, but in speaking to other guys who have had problems with mounting Tortoises and having come up with what I believe is a fool-proof approach, I’d like newbies and those more experienced modelers to see it. They may not have seen my response on the other thread.
I truly believe that the directions that come with the Tortoise machines are not a very good approach. Heck, they say you should mount the wire on the Tortoise AFTER the machine is installed. That would be impossible in many cases because there are sometimes joists in the way and it would be impossible to get a screwdriver in place to attach the wire.
I spent 22 years building computer systems and sometimes I engineered systems that nobody else had thought about. And, I think here, you may want to take notice of my approach. I’m not looking for “atttaboys”; I just want you folks to know the best way to mount a Tortoise and have it work perfectly, as mine do.
I’m kind of an expert at mounting Tortoise machines, having just completed mounting my 70th one. I have found that the most important thing is to be sure the throw in either direction is exactly the same. In other words, the wire must be positioned so that when the wire is precisely vertical, the throwbar is exactly in the middle of the turnout. To accompli***his, I too drill a half-inch hole in the roadbed and cork and afterwards, solder the turnout in place. Naturally, I do my best to make sure the hole is in the middle of the turnout’s throwbar but that doesn’t always happen. So, what I do is attach the Tortoise wire, following their directions, to the Tortoise, and apply some power to the Tortoise with alligator clips attached to a power pack. Use the DC output screws on the power pack and only move the throttle up a littl
Mondo - I read the article as well. I thought the dowel was too much work. I basically drill a 3/8" hole under the throwbar, and then put some Walthers ‘Goo’ on the Tortoise. I have the Tortoise assembled with the wire installed(and centered). I run the wire up through the 3/8" hole and feed it into the throwbar hole. The Tortoise ‘tacks’ due to the ‘Goo’ and I then adjust it for the final ‘fit’ - then I drill pilot holes and actually ‘mount’ the Tortoise using the 2 screws supplied. Takes maybe 5-10 minutes to do a turnout,
I think the ‘velcro’ trick may be a good idea, but I really like using the screws for a secure mounting. BTW, the Tortoise motors are far easier to mount than any of the others, and they have been ‘bullet proof’ for me!
I too read the article in MR and after reading about the dowel all I could think was “Why?”
The hole drilled in the dowel looked big enough to allow movement and thus mis-alignment. And why oh why bother with the trouble of drilling a hole lengthways in a dowel, (not the easiest thing to achieve!). Dont they have garden canes in that part of the country, heck even a short piece of plastic tubing doesnt cost more than $1, for the effort much more logical.
I havent mounted a tortoise yet (no smart remarks on that comment pls) but when I do I’ll be trying mondo’s method.
I read through that article. The Velcro approach seems like a good idea…but I wonder how long until the machine’s weight loosens it. I’d rather use screws on mine. BTW, I found it easier to install the machine, then do the wiring. I use edge connectors (meant for circuit boards) to make things simple.
I’ve got to tell you that I spoke to the head of Circuitron who makes the Tortoise machine, and although he sells the edge connectors, he suggested I solder them and save some money. So for all you new guys out there, buy a pencil soldering iron (about $7.00) and save the money. You’ll find other uses for the soldering iron anyway and won’t just need it for the Tortoise machines.
OK here’s how I do it. I cut up a batch of 3/4" particle board mounts 2 1/2" wide X 3" long. On the centerline about 3/4" from one end I drill a clearance hole for a drywall screw. I then attach the Tortoise (after replacing the spring w/ a stronger one) w/ the activating spring centered. I then attach 2 leads to the motor contacts. Next, using 3 conductor phone acable I solder leads to the power routing contacts. All this is done on the work bench.
To mount the Tortoise I stick a couple of toothpicks between the points and stockrails to center the points. About 3/4 inch from the throwbar I drill a 5/64 hole through the homosote and plywood. I then isert a 1" long piece of 1/16 tubing into the hole. The next step is to take a length of piano wire, bend a little over an inch of it at a 90 degree angle and run the long part into the brass tubing and attach the now horizontal piece to the throwbar. Now we crawl under the benchwork, cut the wire where it extends about 5" below the bottom of the roadbed and bend the piano wireabout 2" from the end into a 180 degree bend. Now bend the wire where it comes out from the roadbed in a 90 dgree bend. Slip the Tortoise activating wire into the loop thus formed and attach the Tortoise w/ a drywall screw. You now have wires hanging down where they’re more accesable to make whatever connections are neccesary. The switch machine can be adjusted by simply loosening the drywall screw slightly and moving the mount to the left or right as needed. The time spent under the RR shouldn’t exceed 2 or 3 minutes per switch.
The approach you’ve described, I think, is one my buddies used to use when they were mounting selenoid-type switch machines, where they needed to somehow connect the machine with the turnout throwbar. You didn’t explain why you would use this approach for a Tortoise machine which quite frankly is already designed to properly interact with the th
I gotta say, I’ve never had problems mounting Tortoises. I think people go overboard - it has to be close, but not down to the thousandth of an inch. The throw distance of the Tortoise is far greater than the distance the points in the turnout move. You want tension in both positions to hold the points tight against the adjacent rail, but by no means does it have to be ultra precise. I think people worry too much.
In order to just run the wire through the throwbar you have to steer it up through the benchwork and through that tiny hole. The combination of my eyesight and claustraphopia makes an alternative desirable. There’s also the matter of only needing to drive one screw instead of four (the four are driven into the particle board mount in the comfort of the workbench) while working under the RR
OK guys it seams that every thing you talked about will work!! I’ve got six of the 13 I have to install done,I use a 1/2 drill for the hole,solder the wires to the Tortoise,thn roll them up.then insert the wire through the throughbar,go under the table hook up the switch,the screw that holds the wire is the hardest for me.I anchor the switch with a few drops of SLOW set(gap filling) CA.this works for me,slight twist of a screwdriver will re-move the switch.After this is done I check the movement,I only had to bend one switch wire a bit so far.
Now I have a question for you guys: I’am useing an dc power sorce to run the switch machines,can I ? put the 680 ohm resistor on the in put power lead in sted of on each switch? ok what I’am doing is useing a DPDT wired for reverse polarity for the two leds
i use to show open (RED) and closed(GREEN)right now I’ve been installing the resistor on the DPDT switch between the DPDT and the leds on one of the leads.This is a problem under my control pannel.I would just like to install The DPDT,the leds and be done with it,it will conserve room that way.Any help here?I’am useing analog DC not DCC at the present.
You don’t need any resistors to use the Tortoise with LEDs. The diagram is in the Tortoise instructions. It’s hard to make a ‘drawing’ with text work, so I’ll describe it.
First, the DPDT switch. The corner terminals need to be connected like an X. You power supply attaches to the center two terminals.
Next, the LEDs. On each LED there should be a flat marking one of the leads. Connect the LEDs together so that the flat of one connects to the opposite side of the other. You should enf up with 2 LEDs connected together with 2 wires coming off. One wire connects the flat of the red LED and the not flat of the green, and the other wire connects the flat of the green and the not flat of the red.
From the DPDT switch, connect one of the end terminals to one of these LED wires. Connect the other LED wire to the Tortoise. Connect the other end terminal of the switch to the Tortoise. When you throw the switch on way, the Tortoise will move one way and one of the LEDs will come on. Throw the toggle the other way, and the Tortoise will move the other direction, and the other LED will come on.
If the toggle and the LEDs agree but the Tortoise moves the wrong way, reverse the wires at the Tortoise. If the switch and the Tortoise agree but the LEDs are wrong, reverse the LED connections.
Since the Tortoise draws 20ma or less, this limits the current to the LEDs to 20ma or less - so no resistor is required. You can also use a single bi-color LED - these are red and green LEDs in a single unit, with only 2 wires coming out of them - internally built like I described connecting the two individual LEDs.
Randy
I’am with you,the DPDT switch wireing is right on,I’am useing 5MM leds,some one told me to use the resistor,so I did,I’am going to try your way,I allso read the inst that came with the tortoise.I’ts simple but sometimes people can read to much into something,IMHO the red on one lead and the green on the other is best for me,here is a far shot of my pannel,you can see the green lites on
