Hi, I am look into buying a K4 with sound. I have heard that you need a 16 Volt pack to run the MRC… which I don’t have. I would like to know which is better in terms of sounds, operation, pulling power, and looks.
MRC? I think you mean MTH. Personally, I refuse to buy MTH just because of previous law suites that brought things like back-EMF technology to a grinding halt for several years.
A fellow at my club did say that the MTH model was more correct to the era he was modeling (no he is not going to buy one for the same reason I stated above). Apparently the BLI model is of a later slightly reworked version. So if the time period you are doing has any bearing on the decision, that might be something to consider.
Yes MTH not MRC. MTH is an O scale manufacturer that is on poor terms with many people here because of the lawsuits TZ mentioned. The MR review of the engine seems to say to me that it looks great, but has a few problems with operation such as needing too much voltage. This would be solved if you bought the DCS system but that is a bad investment because the MTH K4 is the ONLY HO engine that is DCS capable. Also it says that if you use the traction tires and try to pull any kind of a long train the loco will rear up and derail. The BLI K4 is fully compatible with NMRA standards and to my knowledge doesnt have any real common problems. If I were buying a K4, BLI would get my money.
It is regrettable that more knowledgable and credible people have not been able to describe the MTH engine for us. MR magazine and a few others have offered opinions, but there are too few of them available and too few willing to stick their vitual necks out to offer an informed opinion. So, we will have to wait and see how these locos do over time.
The principle complaint about MTH’s loco always reverts back to their litigious history, which is a red herring. Since the topic pertains to the locomotive, itself, that is where the discussion should center. To that extent, the proprietary (scarce) DCS HO capability can stand many characterizations, and any one of us can call it good or bad, an investment or no investment, depending on our interests and priorities. If all-out looks, sounds, and performance are what count, then the MTH version probably has it over the current version of the BLI. If availability and flexibility to run it on a range of layouts is the question, the nod may go to BLI, but that could change as we learn and accept more of the DCS system, and as more people purchase it and incorporate it into their layouts…including clubs.
As it happens, I have a very nice BLI version which I have heard is the Lionel version. Lionel beat a hasty retreat from HO a couple of years back, so I am also the beneficiary, having joined later, of flood sale prices on one of their very nice Challengers. Since Lionel was not involved with MTH in th courts at the time of production, my Challenger also has the BEMF capability which permits the loco to start and move at scale prototypically slow speeds. BLI’s K4s does not.
Personally, the smoke capability with the MTH loco is a real eye-opener, I am sure, but like high volume settings on a multitude of locos in a confined and modest space, it can quickly get old.
You can get BLI K4’s from trainworld.com at a bargain price, retro-fit the new chip f
I saw the MTH at the LHS last weekend. As far as detailing goes, it’s very nice, probably better than the first run BLIs. Sounds were ok. The station announcemtns and train loading background noises are gimmicky at best, something better left for a stationary sound unit installed at your station platform rather than coming from the loco. The smoke is neat but as Selector said, will probably get old real fast. There is a switch to turn off the smoke unit though.
I don’t model the PRR so I won’t be buying one. I wouldn’t say the lawsuit stuff is a red herring, MTH’s actions have left a bad taste in the mouth of many scale modelers, and the only way to voice this is to simply not buy the product. And a not-so red herring is the oddidty that is DCS. Better or not, it simply is not DCC and is one manufacturer going off and doing their own thing, vs a defined NMRA standard like DCC. I have seen no effort on the part of MTH to license DCS to others to perhaps encourage adoption of this different system, nor have I heard of MTH workign with the NMRA DCC group to perhaps find ways to incorporate DCS features into DCC in a way that iwll remain compatible with existing DCC (and MTH will say it can’t be done - hogwash!). So, broadly supported standard, or single source system? There are quirks in the DCS decoder when operating under DCC as has been mentioned in the various reviews, like the settings for momentum CVs being reversed from the norm (higher values = LESS momentum? WHat was MTH’s programmer smoking when he designed that?).
–Randy
[quote user=“selector”]
It is regrettable that more knowledgable and credible people have not been able to describe the MTH engine for us. MR magazine and a few others have offered opinions, but there are too few of them available and too few willing to stick their vitual necks out to offer an informed opinion. So, we will have to wait and see how these locos do over time.
The principle complaint about MTH’s loco always reverts back to their litigious history, which is a red herring. Since the topic pertains to the locomotive, itself, that is where the discussion should center. To that extent, the proprietary (scarce) DCS HO capability can stand many characterizations, and any one of us can call it good or bad, an investment or no investment, depending on our interests and priorities. If all-out looks, sounds, and performance are what count, then the MTH version probably has it over the current version of the BLI. If availability and flexibility to run it on a range of layouts is the question, the nod may go to BLI, but that could change as we learn and accept more of the DCS system, and as more people purchase it and incorporate it into their layouts…including clubs.
As it happens, I have a very nice BLI version which I have heard is the Lionel version. Lionel beat a hasty retreat from HO a couple of years back, so I am also the beneficiary, having joined later, of flood sale prices on one of their very nice Challengers. Since Lionel was not involved with MTH in th courts at the time of production, my Challenger also has the BEMF capability which permits the loco to start and move at scale prototypically slow speeds. BLI’s K4s does not.
Personally, the smoke capability with the MTH loco is a real eye-opener, I am sure, but like high volume settings on a multitude of locos in a confined and modest space, it can quickly get old.
You can get BLI K4’s from trainworld.com at a bargain price,
I was leaning towards BLI, and now I will get the BLI one.
I know Trainworld sells em’ for $250 with sound. 