Few weeks ago I spotted some MRC F7’s at my LHS. I like the detail and see through grill but knew nothing about them. So I asked here, was pretty much told they where junk and not worth buying. Here is a link to the original question.
I was still interested in the engines, even with the very bad reviews. Sometimes I like a challenge. MSRP on the engines was $79.99 and my LHS had them at $69.99 each. With there age (made in 1999) and bad review’s I asked Ken (owner of my LHS) if I could get a discount, heck he did not even know he still had them. [(-D] Answer was yes on the discount and I took one home with me for the cost of a Athearn Blue Box Engine. Got the one running, so I picked up the F7 Ken was holding for me yesterday. Will review both at the same time.
Main complainant I read was the details where not correct. Well I am not a rivet counter and to be honest I cannot tell the differences between a F7 and a F9 unless I am looking at the box they came in!
Paint lines do look sharp and love the see through grills. Mine are Santa Fe Warbonnet Passenger Engines.
My engines came with MRC motor decoders and they where perfectly speed match straight out of the box! In other words, they did not run! [:-^] I was pretty much expecting this so I was not mad. Good side is MRC uses a lot of wire on this decoder install, so I got free wire. Both engines ran on DC so if you run just DC you might be fine.
Decoder install was very easy. There was plenty of wires from the trucks, headlight and motor. So I did not have to add any wires unlike my PK 1000’s. All but the + side on the motor was correctly color coded. I hard wired in Digitrax DH 123’s.
Farrellaa hope you don’t mind, but I am using some of the pictures you posted.
The original Intermountain F units had the same issue with the x-ray vision nose for the head lamp.
You did not mention the things that have kept me from purchasing these units through the years. I currently own zero. 1. To me it looks like the body sits about 3 scale inches too high off the trucks. That could account for the rocking that was described, but to me it makes it look Lionelish. 2. The mold mark around going from the nose of the unit up toward the cab side windows. I would have to sand that away before I could stand to look at the things. 3. The truck detail seems very crude. While you are impressed with the see through grills, there are some things on the truck that should also be more see-through. 4. On some of the units (this Santa Fe one seems to be one of them) the logos seem to be stickers or decals rather than being painted on. Once again very Lionelish.
I would have to get these into the $10-$20 range to consider getting them for play toys.
Ken, I am glad you are happy with them. I still plan to DCC mine. I have 1- NYC and 2- SF as you have and think they look pretty good, especially for the price (I only paid $30-$32 each on Ebay) and I think the detail is also pretty good. BTW, glad you could use my photos.
I found a good way to keep the headlight shining thru the lens; I cut a piece of styrene tube (about 3/16-1/4" dia) and glued it to the cab front and put the LED inside. The front of the tube is cut to just clear the back of the lens. Did this on my P2K E8’s and will see it it works on the MRC’s (plus some black paint inside the nose). Keep us posted on your reworking issues.
I went back and read the original thread where it was thought that it might be a Kato clone drive. But after looking at your photo of the truck, that is definitely an Athearn or Proto 2000 clone. The wheels certainly look like Protos with there blackened copper (not brass) look to them. The engine having been made in China could have sourced their parts from the proto factory. The wheel gears look like ABS or gray Delrin/Acetal. The idler gears are probably Nylon (or thr Chinese equivalent and should be long lasting)… The motor, which I haven’t seen, is probably sourced from somewhere else.
Anyone that bought one of MRC’s ALCo C-420s might remember that MRC’s Lima (Italy) built models was also an amalgum of parts. The old Lima updated body now with dynamic brakes, new all-metal frame with new Delrin handrails (instead of the old fat plastic ones), trucks borrowed from one of Lima’s electric locos and finished off with the now famous Mashima (A-Line) motor. For it’s time this was a good product, even with it’s flaws, it ran very smooth, but was geared too fast and wouldn’t play well with others and also had several demensional flaws as wel, ( When Rivarossi took over Lima, they replaced the motor with a slower RPM Faulhaber motor). It took another 20+ years for Alas to make a proper one. I updated mine with the Faulhaber motors and they’re still running smooth after 20 years of quite regular use (now with decoders in them).
So, just 'cuz they’re Frankenstein creations, doen’t mean they can’t last a long time.
Zephyr said " 1. To me it looks like the body sits about 3 scale inches too high off the trucks " Boy ypu have better eyes than me! [(-D] What is that, 1 MM if that?
More than likely a engine that meets your needs would be 4 times than what I paid both engines and the decoders. (plus I got the extra wire off the MRC decoders [(-D]) Rivet Counters have there places in this hobby and glad they are there. Keeps the makers half way honest on details. When it comes to real old Mopar Cars, I am a rivet counter. Drives me nuts to see a 69 Roadrunner decal on a 68 Roadrunner. Then lets talk about 73 Cuda Mirrors on a 70 Cuda! What where they thinking?
But this is not serious hobby for myself. It is a fun hobby, and seeing my improperly detailed MRC F7A’s dragging 50 cars puts a smile on my [:D]
Bob, glad your not mad I stole your pictures! Hum, do you happen to have a MRC Santa Fe B unit? [:-^]
Rivet Counter won’t like them. But the detail is better than the Stewart’s, PK 1000’s and the Athearn Blue Boxes I have.
Your having a laugh (as the Brits would say). Four times what you paid for both engines and the decoders would be what, about $130 or so? Lets see, I picked up an AB set of Genesis F3’s for that much and they are universally considered to be the best HO F unit made to date.
Well see you are a rivit counter, but just not with trains, so you can’t blame people who feel about their train hobby the way you do about your car hobby. Eh?
All things being equal, I prefer the Stewarts over the MRC given the availability and price you can likely get them at is simillar. The Stewart drive can’t be beat and I like the shells - the only thing really appearing better are the see through air grills but I’m not all that fussed on them.
Yeah about that. Even looking at the pictures you posted, doesn’t it look to you like the body if floating over the trucks instead of hunkered down resting on them?
I doubt that. I have many “toy” models that I have picked up along the way just to play with (like the Bachmann FTs). The deal is that I have not yet found one that has hit my price point for them yet. I have found several on clearance racks, swap meets, and ebay but all still way over what I would want to pay.
I think you have a way to general definition of rivet counter. I don’t think a rivet counter would be satisfied with any out of the box unit. I cannot argue against the detail point. Of course that was the idea of the Stewarts and P-1000. Stewart was get the basic shell out there in generic form with a fantastic drive and let the modeler apply specific prototypical detail as desired. The P-1000 philosophy was to get less detailed units out there so people didn’t have to pay the P2K prices for good running models. And then the Athearn Blue box has never claimed to be a detailed unit. Just adding separate hand rails and grab irons to an Athearn unit can really improve the looks. They used to make a “dress up kit” for t
Jay, thank you for pointing out the fact the wheels are copper and not brass. I have about 10 hours on the first one and been running on some track that was not clean. Headlight is not flickering.
Rio Grand, I don’t blame anyone for being a Rivet Counter. We both have our places in the hobby.Like I posted before my LHS has quite a few of Stewart’s engines. If you want me to see what he has let me know. I will ship for him.
Zephyr To be honest about the body sitting a little high, maybe. My Athearn BB F7’s look about the same (Jay may be right on there trucks being Athearn). My PK 1000 F3’s do sit lower. I don’t know if a F3 and a F7 should sit at the same height.
Do I think the original reviews a little hard on MRC. They run well, pull great and pretty quite. Most engines will have some drawbacks and these do. Like I said, if you can find them for $50.00 or less they are a good buy.
It’s pretty obvious that MRC acquired locomotives from several different sources. I purchased one of the very first that was offered, and it was definitely a Walthers Trainline locomotive mechanism that came in a plain white box.
The only thing that seems to be common between all the different versions was the MRC decoder being dead on arrival.
When MRC stopped selling them, they were liquidated for $30 each regardless of whose mechanism was used, so a selling price of $70 is a bit unrealistic…
Ken, thanks about the Stewarts but considering my time period of 1965 - 1980’s, an as such F units were in their final years. I currently own 17 Stewart F units, 4 Proto 2000 F units and 12 Genesis and don’t anticipate needing anymore.
Based on the Stewarts I own, they run silky smooth like the KATO chassis they are, and the bodies are nicely proportioned. They do have mold lines on the nose sides similar to the MRC; depending on the Stewart, the mold lines can be more pronounced or very subtle. As for the see through griills, they do look more “jazzy” at first glance but somehow don’t look quite right to me. The horns don’t look quite right either, seems the paint is always chipped off on the examples I see and don’t the horns have two mounting posts per horn and not one?
To be fair, the Stewarts have been accused of sitting a bit too high also on the trucks, and this is common to many model engines - often to give them a sharper turning radius. The Stewarts height can be fixed by removing the trucks and filing a nub down, but I haven’t bothered because the slight height issue doesn’t bother me - I don’t think most people can really see 3-inches differene in HO scale. I recall the Bachmann Spectrum F40PH was listed in the review as being 9-inches too tall, and to me it was indeed noticable - what was one of many dimensional flaws that caused me to sell off my pair and replace them at the time with the better looking Walthers Trainline F40PH’s.
I have never counted rivits, never, but I do look at fairly major features such as phase details, overall fidelity, does the model match the real thing in all the major visible ways, near prototype coupling distances and so on. Since trains cost a lot of money, I do pick and choose. As you commented, you are picky when it comes to cars - me? not to that level, nor do I have the cash to have a “car hobby” - I’m still trying to get to the p
3 inches may sound picky in HO but it is noticeable, especially coupled up with anothe ruinit that is correct height. The old AThearn BB Geeps were 6" too wide, that was noticeable without another to compare, the proportions don;t look right compared to prototype photos. Set a moder correct width unit next to one of those oldsters and it’s REALLY obvious.
This coming from someone who is most definitely not a rivet counter, I tend to follow the 3 foot rule instead.
I agree that small deviations can be seen especailly in certain circumstances. For example, Bachman Plus made their F7A and B, and even in the MR review, they noted the A unit sat too high, among other issues, and the B unit was closer to the correct height. When you ran the A with the B, as we do, you could really see the difference between them, it was very noticable when you compared the two.
As for the 6-inch difference in the hoods of some of Athearns old blue box, notably the SD45 looked really fat - even at age 14 I noticed how fat the nose looked - aweful.
Amen to that. I have one of those SD45’s as well as an Athearn GP35 that have the wide hood. There’s also Athearn’s GP7, SD9 and Walthers GP9m that are too wide. After doing a bit of measuring I find the Athearn F7 shell to be a little wide when compared to some others but that appears to be due to the thickness of the shell.
It appears that MRC did produce B units in many flavors. Or at least they intended to as Walthers cataloged them. Possibly they were just vapor-ware. They started with Walthers item 500-34100 on up. If you put this number in the Walthers advanced search and search for all items including discontinued you’ll find them.
Just a little up date. They now have around 20 hours on them and are still going strong! They will out pull my Athearn Super Weight F 7’s. I have yet to have to clean the wheels.
