I noticed in MTH’s new catelog that they mention Joshua Lionel Cowen’s name on the page describing the new MTH Blue Comet set. Is this marketing savvy or a tip of the hat to Lionel himself? Or what? I’ve only ever seen the last two years MTH catelog’s, so I’m not all that familiar with them. Maybe this isn’t new.
Personnally, it beats saying, “The other guys” etc. It may only be a marketing ploy, but it has respectful tone that seems appropriate.
What say you guys?
Greg
Greg,
That’s a very sweet looking loco! I mentoned on another post near this one about deep flange problems. Personally, I’d go full-size tubular, as I’d think it would better match this lovely beast!
Since they cannot put the name “Lionel” on the side, this is the next best thing to undertake, hoping to cover one’s product in reflected glory. It’s primarily marketing, with a tip of the hat to JL Cowen to be sure, but also might be viewed by some as blatant ripping off of Lionel’s history for the profit and benefit of MTH. Since the illusion that MTH is the real heir to Lionel’s legacy is a long time advertising ploy of MTH since the mid-1990s I’d say it’s business as usual :). Perhaps legal, but morally dubious intellectual property theft, IMO.
[quote]
Originally posted by nblum
Since they cannot put the name “Lionel” on the side, this is the next best thing to undertake, hoping to cover one’s product in reflected glory. It’s primarily marketing, some respect for JL Cowen to be sure, and blatant ripping off of Lionel’s history for the profit and benefit of MTH. Since the illusion that MTH is the real heir to Lionel’s legacy is a long time advertising ploy of MTH since the mid-1990s I’d say it’s business as usual :). Perhaps legal, but morally dubious intellectual property theft, IMO.
The great Dr. Blum can never post without trying to encite an MTH vs. Lionel war. He forgot to mention whimsical this time . Personally, I’m sick & tired of it , especially when you tell new guys how great this forum is & how wonderful this hobby is.
I addressed the issues raised by the original poster. Perhaps you should do the same?
while the use of the term blatant ripping off could be considered inflammatory, the statement probably isn’t far from the truth. Lionel has a 100 year old history in the business and the name JLC is recognized by most. “Borrowing” the use of the name in a way that doesn’t develop into a new lawsuit is pretty much what Neil said it is, although the use of the word “borrowing” only serves to make it more polite.
MTH acknowledges the source of the original tinplate Blue Comet (or other items–Lionel, Ives, Flyer, Dorfan), and I sure don’t read anything more into it than that. Thank goodness MTH is offering repros (and they don’t pretend to be anyhitng but repros) of these great toys because we sure would not have them available to us if that was not the case.
MTH has done more than any other firm to keep the early days of tinplate trains alive–and viable–for those of us who missed out on the originals. There’s not even a close second in terms of variety of products offered in recent years, and I can personally attest to the quality of these new items being even better than the originals. Doesn’t get much better than that for a Standard Gauge fan who wants to acquire and play with some of the great toys of a long-gone era.
Let me go on the record and say my original Post is not bait to start a Lionel/MTH showdown amongst members of this forum. So let’s not go there. Everyones got their likes and dislikes, so let’s leave it at that. I merely thought it was an interesting bit of marketing, as well as a neat gesture. Like’em or hate’em Mike Wolf seems to be the closest “Personality” (As in Celebrity) to Joshua Lionel Cowen that the hobby seems to have today. That’s just my perception, not based on any facts about the two people.
I don’t understand the haters. What would you Lionel only folks do if one day you woke up and Mike Wolf owned Lionel? Or Vice Versa? Would you quit the hobby out of a stupid brand loyalty?
The tone of you guys sometimes on this and other forums makes it sound like thats exactly what you’d do.
I don’t get it!
Greg
“Would you quit the hobby out of a stupid brand loyalty?”
You’re making a lot of assumptions here. Since you admit you don’t get it, just accept the fact that there are substantial numbers of folks who are not all that pleased with everything that has happened in the hobby these last ten years. Let’s also accept there are plenty of new and old toy trains out there one could buy without supporting MTH, or any future MTH corporate acquisition.
If I woke up one morning and Mike Wolf owned Lionel, my reaction is not predictable in advance. My reaction no doubt would depend on how that came about and what he did with the company and the brand. I would think that’s true of a lot of Lionel fans. Seems like a pretty reasonable and unstupid position for anyone who likes Lionel trains and has observed the industry and participated in the hobby for decades.
Didn’t Tony Lash say June 7 is judgment day? When you wake up on June 8, maybe that will be a fact.[;)]
Tony says a lot of things in jest or to get a rise out of others. June 8th things will be exactly as they are today in terms of who owns Lionel unless Mike Wolf buys the company at a price that Neil Young, *** Kughn and Mrs. Davis like. I think the likelihood of that happening is pretty small, almost vanishingly so. But in any case, what will be will be, and then folks will do as they see fit.
The original question was about what folks think about MTH’s catalog and marketing, and apparently some don’t like all the answers. My apologies to the deeply offended, but if you don’t want to hear “stupid” opinions or those contrary to your own, it’s probably best not to ask questions :).
I don’t much care who owns what train company. I buy the trains, not the producers of the trains. I don’t own stock or shares or anything else in any of the companies (none of which offer such opportunities in any case) and I have no vested interest in the ownership or operation of any firm.
As long as they continue producing items I would like to have for my own enjoyment, I couldn’t care less what color boxes the trains come in or whose nameplates are on the side. I felt that way when I was a kid (had mostly Lionel, but also had products from Marx, Colber, AMT, and a few others) and I still feel that way today.
There’s sure nothing wrong with someone electing to collect and/or operate one brand over another, but that’s a personal choice that, as far as I am concerned, should remain a strictly personal choice. I honestly don’t care what trains someone else owns or prefers, and I’m happy for them as long as they don’t try to convice me, or others, that alternate choices are somehow “wrong” for any reason.
If you like Lionel–for whatever reason–buy Lionel. Ditto for MTH, Atlas, Weaver, Wiliams, RMT, and any of the others out there. I own plenty of most and/or some of each, so don’t anyone try to tell me that one is somehow “better” than the rest. Hobbies are personal endeavors, and nobody needs to justify their choices.
And since I’m more of a Standard Gauge enthusiast than anything else (aside from Large Scale) these days, I buy MTH because they are producing the items I want and like in a variety that nobody else comes even remotely close to offering. I participate on the Yahoo Standard Gauge group, and have never seen collectors/operators of the original Lionel (or other) offerings put down those of us who simply like the bright, shiny repros of their genuine–and costly–artifacts.
quote: "I don’t understand the haters. What would you Lionel only folks do if one day you woke up and Mike Wolf owned Lionel? Or Vice Versa? Would you quit the hobby out of a stupid brand loyalty?
The tone of you guys sometimes on this and other forums makes it sound like thats exactly what you’d do.
I don’t get it!
Greg"
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well said, station break over; now back to the Blue Comet
To have tinplate in O gauge; we are truly blessed, no matter the company who makes them; although I don’t model in tinplate; I find these models truly charming
I always like Neil’'s posts. You know where he’s coming from, just like Tony Lash.
While we’re at it, you ever notice how often Williams uses the Lionel name?
If I woke up tomorrow qnd Mike Wolf owned Lionel, it wouldn’t change my buying habits a bit, as I only buy post war, Made In The USA Lionel trains. When my layout is complete, I will run them regularly on 60 year old tubular track through sixty year old switches and I will be happy to see these icons of a different era chugging away on my layout without worrying about PS1, PS2, fried electronics, etc etc etc.
Right on Frank. If Lionel moved production back to Michigan, I would buy their trains even if they jacked the price up 50% more than they are now. Remember how they used to brag as late as 1999 or 2000 “MADE IN THE USA”?
Stupid may have been a bit harsh. I’ve model railroaded for 30 years, but only in the last three bought three rail type. Used my brothers Lionel as a kid, have some Lionel now, just bought an MTH set. I look at the hobby, and see choice upon choice upon choice, unbelievable quality, and a local hobby shop thats a fountain of knowledge on both older trains, and new stuff. We’ve never had it so good!!!
What on God’s green earth do you have to be displeased about these last 10 years of the hobby??? Other than K Line tanking (which is never good). Why the displeasure?
Greg
I can’t get into MTH’s website to look at the Blue Comet. I assume it’s tinplate right? I give Mike a lot of credit for the revival of tinplate. He does a great job with it, especially standard gauge.
It’s Premier line, J. Fred.
Greg
OK Greg, thanks. I’ll check it out. I guess I was thinking about a reissue of the standard gauge Blue Comet.