I’m in the same mess I was when buying a digital camera. Couldn’t find anyone selling them who could explain and demo satisfactorily. Short version, I’m looking at DCC systems for my MTH system (now a Christmas train on the floor for grandkids, but soon to be a perm layout in garage for both of us).
Looks like MTH’s product is better, does more and can run both MTH and Lionel. However, I’ve seen at least one web article that indicated some reliability problems, and the hobby shop that has them says they have had problems, won’t even demo…want to push Lionel. I think I only need the remote controller and track interface unit, as my transformer that came with original set is 100 watts and I only want to run 2-3 trains max.
Lionel product looks like it can run MTH, but maybe not all functions, like scripted dialogues, voice recording, etc. However, I only have that on 2nd hand account from a guy I met in the hobby shop, who claimed he was doing it. Again, looks like I only need the basic unit and remote…maybe a Lionel transformer too?
Hobby shops have been little help, the “DCC Expert” only works a few days a week and hasn’t shown up for work since I started asking. The rest of the crew seem only interested in selling the Lionel version.
I have a DCC ready MTH loco with Proto 2.0 sound. Great little engine with incredible sound. Looking for another.
I would be grateful to hear any experience or recommendations from anyone who has worked with both systems.
I believe we can help you. By any chance do you live in the southern part of the state [?]
OK lets start off with a little of confusion. All these letter are so darn confusing.
DCC is a DC command system for most commonly used in HO trains.
DCS is MTH command system for AC O gauge. They also have one for DC in Gauge One and also HO, but lets not go there for now. I believe you want DCS for O gauge.
I have been running DCS for 2 years without any problems. It consist of:
a TIU = track interface unit and
a remote control
That’s it. If you wish in the future to want to run TMCC (Lionel) then you will have to add the Lionel Command Base to the TIU.
Here is a link that can answer some of your questions
Both systems are extremely reliable. Of the two, DCS (MTH) is more advanced and, if you have a Lionel TMCC Command Base and the special MTH cable to connect it to the TIU, it can run TMCC locomtives in command mode (in addition to MTH PS-2’s). You can also run conventional locomotives from the DCS handheld.
Like Tom, I have been running DCS for two years (have been doing demos for MTH for a year and a half) and find the system to be very robust and easy to operate.
If you have or plan to purchase primarily MTH Protosounds 2 locos, you’ll want to get DCS instead of TMCC, for reasons of ease of operability, access to all PS2 functions and overall compatibility. As with all such equipment, you are better off having a knowledgeable local store or expert hobbiest in case you run into glitches. If you don’t, I suggest you make sure you purchase your equipment from a mail order operation that is willing to provide advice and support by telephone or email (some good ones are Nassau Hobbies, Ready to Roll, Island Trains, etc.).
As pointed out, you can always later add a TMCC command base and a TMCC cab-1 (about $90-110 for the package at most discount hobby shops).
I’ll see your four and raise you four more Buckeye. My TMCC (minus one burned out early Powermaster) has been extremely reliable and simple for eight years[:)]. Just make sure you have an up to code, grounded outlet to plug the command base power supply into. That accounts for about 95% of the problems folks report with TMCC.
For someone new to command I would recommend Lionel’s TMCC because it is much easier to use and simpler than MTH’s command system. MTH’s system may or may not require special care in wiring the track whereas TMCC will not have such limitations.
Saying that; if you already have an MTH Proto-2 engine; I would get MTH’s DCS, only because you want to take advantage of the features in the engine you have;
As has been said, you can always buy a TMCC unit and connect it to MTH’s TIU box if and when you purchase a Lionel engine with Command Control.
I have been using tmcc&dcs so far tmcc is easier to use have had trouble with dcs not reading signals sent . I seem to be getting interference from something but what i haven’t a clue? you can use tmcc to control ps-2 locos in conventinal mode you just can’t acess the diff programs. you may want to hold off on these systems as train a studios is going to release a computer setup which will make hand held obsolete!!
Stpaul – I would first check and see what your track single strength is. If you are above a 7 you should be ok. Do you have a cordless phone that operates in the 900Mhz range [?] or do you use a cell phone when you are having troubles with your DCS [?]
IMO DCS is very simple to install and operate. Two wires from the transformer to the TUI and then two wires from the TUI to the track.
Thank you all for your input and advice. Since I’m sticking with MTH Proto Sound 2.0 for the moment, I’ll try the DCS. Sounds like most of you have had a positive experience with it.
And to whomever asked, Folsom CA is in the northern part of the state next to Sacramento.
dcs system is the better system between the two systems-more options and display screen to inform the user of the different options and processes-i run 4 loops with 3 on the dcs system and one on only tmcc system-harder system to learn at first, but after mastering the system, far superior to the tmcc system-only use the tmcc system because i have the system and do not want to use the conventional way of controlling the one loop with the transformer handle
Go with the DCS. Complicated to operate is BULL S. Mine is running on a temp floor layout with old Lionel track and temp wiring. NO PROBLEMS. I went with DCS because I can add the TMCC module and run both. Why buy two complete systems? Now you can run all command trains [no matter what brand] at less cost and equipment.
I agree with you about the display. It is a huge improvement over the little plastic templates that fit over the keypad on the TMCC Cab-1. I don’t like having to stare at the Cab-1 to try to figure out which button to push and I keep loosing the templates (I greatly appreciate Lionel including a new one with each locomotive).
It is also a lot simpler to press a button permanently labeled “Smoke” to turn the smoke on or off and a button permanently labled “Headlight” to turn the headlight on and off as opposed to having to remember a code.
Just out of curiosity, why do you have the TMCC on one loop and DCS on the other, as opposed to both the DCS and TMCC signals on all loops, all the time?
The one part I really like is when I change engines on the layout, you just have to press the ‘READ’ button and DCS finds your active engines. Start them up and run.
I have a cordless phone 2.9 This none read problem on remote screen is very speradic& even will do things with out be asked. mth knows me well at tech site I sometimes even have a problem getting tiu to accept the fact that it is avalid id#. sometimes if I shut it down and wait till next day then it works fine go figure !! this is also 2nd tiu only 1-month old no better than first one. I also cannot get mth system to run a tmcc engine! I do all the programing according to instructions but no response- take cab-1 & type in same id# and its up & runnin. I am not Impressed with DCS so far am concidering goin back to toggle switches & enjoying myself instead of being frustated.
In answer to your questions. 1. yes cable has black box. 2.I had local hobby tech download3.0 on old tiu. 4. I bought a new tiu 2- weeks ago no indication of rev date etc shown on box. but both tiu&handheld workedfine until last 2 days.5. I bought ogr’s 14 gauge wire that is dcs compatible.6. transformer is z-4000. news flash yesturday had 3- mth ps-2’s going 2 on same track tryed to slow rear train down& no response tried other 2 no response 2 trains on colision course in desperation hit e-stop on handheld no response shut trans off since then I get tiu error or no active dcs on track . handheld shows all 3 locos as inactive cannot get tiu or h held to read trains on track. is signal better -dcs-tmcc not so far& yes all 3 loco’s respond to tmcc no wire change just fire up tmcc& poof it all works !!! ready to throw system in trash where it belongs.
I will be happy to assist if you want. Properly set up, DCS will be more solid than TMCC (which is really solid). We just fire the layout up and DCS works with no problem. Not trying to be argumentative, that is just the way it works. We have run up to 10 trains at once through one TIU on four tracks (combination of PS-2, TMCC, and conventional.
Just out of curiosity, where is the TIU mounted. I keep seeing people mounting them flat on their back under the layout and that is not usually conducive to the system working correctly. It is definitly “line of site”.
If you do a track signal test, what is the result?
Are you actually located in ST Paul? If you are in California, you can come and run with us sometime to see how it is supposed to work.
Anyway, the offer to assist is there if you would like it.
Not sure of tiu on its back. yes it sits on its 4-pads on a wood table under layout but is on 4 metal casters so all electronics are not more than 1-foot under table als has 1 1/2 feet of open air space all around it . now my question is how can it work for hours just fine & then decide not to . If signal was issue would’t it show up most if not all the time??
The first thing you might try, is tethering the Handheld to the TIU with a four wire telephone handset wire. If that cures it, it is definitely an RF problem.
If the tethering cures things, first make sure that the RF boards in both the TIU and Handheld are both seated firmly. Occasionally one will come loose and that will make things rather interesting.
If both boards are seated correctly and the problem persists, try getting the TIU out in the open, and mount it vertically. An air gap ( as you described) is not a substitute for “line of site” from an RF standpoint for our purposes. I had the TIU under my Super O layout and found that, depending on what was in between the remote and the layout, I could get the signal blocked, causing a temporary loss of control. There is one layout that I visit that has all the TIU’s mounted under the table. Depending on where I am standing, if I hold the Handheld above the surface of the layout, I may experience a temporary loss of control. If I move the Handheld under the table, control is instantly restored. When the Super O layout is taken out of storage, the TIU will be mounted on the wall (next to the Command Base) well above the surface of the layout. The object is to be able to control things properly no matter where the Handheld is relative to the layout.
Both of my temporary control setups have the TIU mounted vertically and out in the open. Both have excellent range and do not experiece the issue you described.
With regard to the TIU being on its back: There is a small wire antenna inside which is about two or three inches long mounted to the RF board. It runs parallel to the long side of the TIU. If you stand the TIU up, no matter where you are in the room, the same amount of antenna area will be presented to the remote. If you lay it on its back, if you are to the side of the TIU, you will have the maximum antenna area presented to the Handheld. If you are off the end of the TIU
