I bought three MTH Alco PAs recently, based on good experience with six SD70ACe’s, two Challengers, and two Mikados. Well, they’re about to lose a customer. These PAs are terrible. I run them on a large Digitrax Super Chief powered layout. They stop intermittently, lose their decoder memory frequently (require CV8 reset on programming track each time), the smoke unit fans fail (twice), etc. Had one repaired under warranty (5 week turnaround), and it died today, just after return. Have tried calling them daily for a week (because the B-unit died last week), only to be on hold for long periods before I gave up. Tried sending a request for service through the website… dead link. I just ordered 3 Soundtraxx decoders, and will have to gut the “Protosound” decoders. Looks like a very complicated install, especially if I want to preserve the smoke feature. I’m so disgusted with both the product and now lack of support. Anybody else had problems with these, or changed the decoders yet?
That is a disappointing experience, especially for the price these are listed at. I’ve eyed the D&RGW PA’s thinking they look nice but since I already have a Proto 2000 version and the time period I model starts about when they were retired, it would be an impulse buy I can’t afford, especially if my DOD work contract is not renewed this fall.
I hope you are able to get yours working.
Wonder what’s different, besides the smoke? Have you tried turning off the smoke, really off, if they have a switch and not just a function. Seems odd the other MTHs run fine but these don’t. My FAs run fine on Digitrax.
Do they have the smoke set up right in the first place? Alcos didn;t continuously smoke, they smoked up when goign under load, so if it’s done realistically it should smoke when you first open the throttle and then taper off. ANd be black, not white steam smoke.
–Randy
Hi riogrande 5761,
Yep, Mine are DRGW. I model the Rio Grande, because that was my first assignment when working for EMD. I got to deliver the first and second order of SD40T-2 locos, and it was an experience I’ll never forget. I’ve got several DRGW units, most equipped with Soundtraxx Tsunami decoders, which are the best in my opinion. The smoke of the PA units is rather unique, but the heating element draws 153 milliamps at full throttle, and both that and the fan that blows the smoke run on 2-3 VDC. Converting them to Soundtraxx will be difficult, but I’ll get it done. Good luck with the DOD contract. You guys are essential and hopefully that will be recognized.
Hello rinker,
Thanks for the idea. I’ll try it. They do smoke continuously. The heating element runs at 1.91 VDC at idle, 3.0 at full throttle, so it’s somewhat regulated, but sill coninuous. Of course, it is white smoke… maybe a coolant leak from a cracked cylinder head? Anyway, good idea, I’ll give that a try on the one that still runs. The other two are totally dead, Do not respond to a full decoder reset on programming track, and cause short-circuit shutdown when placed on the main lines.
I remember a day when we were heralding the days of the hobby where lower prices would rule the day because manufacturers had to compete…and products would have a quality never before seen…wonder what happened…quality went up in some areas, but selection went away… competition seems to be “colluded” and for modelers like me, the selection of Kits is a joke…I understand ready to run, but surely they can leave some in kit form, save them a little labor costs, allow me to enjoy a part of the hobby I like…I have glue and tools going to waste from idleness…I mean I can only repair rolling stock that doesn’t need repaired, so many times…side note I just bought a DCS remote system for my O gauge…hope it operates as well as my ho Digitrax
I tend to agree, John, but I suspect that what happened was reality. [sigh]
I also suspect that it is actually a bit more expensive to make a kit than to build the model in the factory. With a kit, you have to print up clear instructions (which means you have to have somebody write them and check them for accuracy), package all the small parts in separate little plastic bags, put all the parts on sprues in the box, pack the box with the instructions, and have the box checked to make sure everything is in there. And then somebody has to put one together to make sure it all works together. THEN you get to ship it out to the distributors. A RTR model gets assembled on an assembly line like a car, slapped into the box with a short sheet of instructions (“Take from careful box out, place on track the model…”) and shipped.
Hi Victor,
I own four of the MTH PA’s in SP (2 A’s and 2 B’s) and have not had any of the trouble you described. However, a couple weeks ago my self and one of my crew took MTH’s technician training so we could service our layout clients’ trains. Based on this statement…
“They stop intermittently, lose their decoder memory frequently (require CV8 reset on programming track each time),”
It sounds like the engine in question has a bad super capacitor. Some of the engines have the super caps soldered directly to the decoder while others plug in with a two wire harness. I don’t have my service book in front of me to check on the type of decoder is in the PA’s, but it’s a plug-in style super cap it could simply be unplugged from the decoder.
“the smoke unit fans fail (twice)”
When you say the fans fail what do you mean? Does the engine stop making smoke entirely? Does some smoke slowly come out w/o any velocity? Could you hear the fan motor before but now it has stopped? I little more info would help the diagnosis.
“The heating element runs at 1.91 VDC at idle, 3.0 at full throttle, so it’s somewhat regulated, but sill coninuous.”
Actually, the heating element always operates at 3 volts, but is pulse width modulated. A Tsunami decoder won’t be able to control the volume of smoke output like the PS3 decoder. The function outputs just don’t the same kind of controls. However, you can get simple on/off control. The heating element uses an 8ohm resistor.
“I just ordered 3 Soundtraxx decoders, and will have to gut the “Protosound” decoders. Looks like a very complicated install, especially if I want to preserve the smoke feature.”
It is a pretty difficult conversion. If you’d like to give it another try to get your engines workin
Dave
Thanks for the comments and offer of help. Sent you the e-mail info in a reply. Some answers:
The 6011 A-unit stopped smoking entirely. Tried the F13 smoke volume adjustment, no change. Unit also shut down intermittently. Sent in for warranty, came back with smoke but shut downs continued. I could temporarily correct by reset of CV8 to value 8 on program track. Yesterday I was running it in consist with A-unit 6013. Digitrax PM42 gave a short circuit shutdown. Removed 6011 from track, power restored. Put if on program track, reset of CV8 shows “good”, but unit causes short circuit whenever placed on test track or layout.
B-unit experiences same intermittent shut down. Will not restart with F3, requires reprogram through CV8. Smoke fan will not turn unless prodded with screwdriver, then it works until is stopped, requiring another manual spin to get it rotating again. Looked at motor and impeller fit to check for binding or impeller interference with motor casing, but that’s OK and impeller is installed squarely on armature shaft. The heating element works, but not the fan.
6013 A-unit is the most recent addition (why did I buy another one?). It did not smoke much, but I found the wick was not in contact with the resistor, so an adjustment corrected that. It also shuts down intermittently, but will restart with F3.
I have several other MTH locos, and they all work well. I run SD70ACe units in consists of 3-4-5 and they run flawlessly. I had heard the new 3.0 decoder used in the PA is different from that of the SD70, so perhaps that’s got something to do with it. All the Tsunami decoder equipped units run well, as do the Broadway limited sound decoder-equipped units, and Athearn units. Consequently, I don’t think there’s a track issue.
I’ve been working with Soundtraxx Technical about a conversion. Their Tech Bulletin 14 addresses the addition of smoke elements to the AT1000 decoder, but requires a relay as their decoder function outputs can’t handl
It does occur to me that being late summer the MTH people may be on vacation so facter that in. Not that they shouldn’t at least have someone checking their messages and provide some kind of response.
Hi Victor,
Sounds like your #6011 has a loose or pinched wire somewhere that is causing the short. It could be a wire for the smoke unit, but I suspect that was a separate problem and the short is a new problem. I’d look for a wire that got caught during re-assembly after the smoke unit work.
The B-unit sounds like it has a bad super cap and possibly a bad solder joint at the smoke unit fan motor.
The #6013 might have a bad super cap, but I doubt it. I think there is something else you should check first. You mentioned you have a Digitrax Super Chief system. Are you using 5 amp boosters? If so, there a chance you’re bumping up against the current limits of the booster. Try taking the rest of your engines off the layout (or isolate them on toggled sidings with the power off) and see if the #6013 runs better by itself. If it does, add the B-unit and check again. The PA’s are pretty power hungry compared even to most sound decoders because of the smoke units. When you run a steamer you usually only run one decoder with one smoke unit at a time. Running the PA’s is like triple heading steamers. They ca easily draw 1.5 amps each. Throw in some parked engines on powered sidings and you could be right at the limit of a 5 amp booster.
BTW, make sure the smoke unit switches are all in the “ON” position and that you enable the smoke unit with F12. You mentioned F13, which only adjusts the smoke volume (low, medium, high). The smoke unit switch sets the start-up default when in DCC or DCS command modes. If the switch is “ON” the smoke unit will be on at initial start-up. If the switch is set to “OFF” the smoke unit will default to off at start-up. F12 will override the switch if it is in the “OFF” position. Unless F12 is enabled F13 will have no visible effect. If a super cap is bad, the engine reacts like it is going through initial start-up anytime track power is interr
Dave,
All sidingso n the layout are switched, so parked locos are off most of the time. The 6011 A-unit apparently has a dead short. I have the carbody off, also the B-unit. The a-unit will not reset, just trips circuit breakers on the layout and also the separate test track. Don’t see any pinched wires. It just came to a screeching halt during the initial short circuit event. The B-unit is running again on the test track. The smoke blower fan will not start by itself. Have re-soldered the two wires, but no change. It will run once prodded, so it appears to be start up current draw related. Just a bad motor I suspect. Meanwhile, the most recent one, A-unit 6013 is running great.
I’m wondering if the consisting has anything to do with all this. I used the consist feature on the Digitrax D402D throttle, which allows you to add loco numbers to the “Top” unit. This does work with everything else, including the MTH SD70’s though.
If you have the ability to contact the MTH Service Manager you mentioned, that would be appreciated. I’d like to send the two problem units back for one more try. Thanks.
Hi Victor,
I think you’ve run through all that can be done without parts replacement. Definitely time to send them in for repair. I have sent your e-mail, a link to this thread, and a brief description of the trouble to MTH. Hopefully you will hear from them soon.
Unless you’ve altered the OpSw settings on the Digitrax command station to use Advanced Consisting with CV19, nothign ever changes int he locos. The default Digitrax consisting is all command station managed and just uses the loco’s normal address.
If it IS using CV19 consisting, that won’t make loco short, but it will make it unresponsive to the normal addrress. Setting CV19 to 0 would fix that, but with Digitrax it should never have gotten set.
–Randy
You do know, that MTH locos can NOT be reset on the programming track? You have to use Program on the main.
Yes, I’d read and heard that. However, out of desparation, I tried it and it does work. That’s how I get one of them to run for 5 minutes before it stops again. CV8 to a value of 8 on the programming track returns the address to 03, and once placed back on the test track it starts right up.
Randy,
Interesting thought. I did use the Digitrax consist feature to make the B unit and second A unit run with the lead A units as the “Top” loco. What other CV’s need setting besides 19 to 0?
ha does anybody know if the ho mth pa1 are to aslo have a horn in them i have just ggot the ho mth alco pa s the a and b unit i progrom under the same number they run get but the couples sometime come apart and try to push them together and they lot and as they run they start to pull apart and on the b unit have motor sound but no horn does the b unit have sound for a horn? thank you motorman1993
If the horn sound is in the B units it is turned off, and likely not accessible from DCC. My FA’s are like that, the A unit has the horn and bell, the B unit does not. Kinda the way it ought to be, actually. Mine run together just fine with no adjustments, I ran them for an extended period of time at the last club show with no problems.
–Randy
I have an ABA NYC consist of these myself, and they are unfortunately problematic. The smokers have failed in two out of three units (which doesn’t really bother me – my family hates the smell anyway) and one of them has locked the decoder for some reason. Runs fine, all the functions work, but no dice in reprogramming it; it won’t even respond to the cv55 55 reset. And no choice but POM means I can’t read any of the decoder settings. Frumple…