Well, I finally had a fleeting look at the new MTH K4 at my LHS…looks great, runs great (should use 16v, though), smoke lives up to MTH’s reputation, sounds are like nothing I’ve ever heard in HO, etc.
If you’re not into branding, this is one great little HO addition and certainly raises a few bars. It’ll be interesting to see where MTH takes their HO line.
It was a fleeting look because it was the last one left at my LHS and went out the door…he’s sold out now.
Cheers,
Mike
The little bit I saw of slow running looked good…I’d expect that from MTH given that’s one of their selling points for the O line.
Cheers,
Mike
You betcha’.
BTW, I also confirmed that these engines are still in stock at MTH…so any LHS should be able to get them from MTH (if they’re a dealer) or a supplier such as Walthers if they’re not.
Cheers,
Mike
What could possibly make me think that MTHrules has a new name???
Reread the MR review; it was one of the most damning reviews they’ve published in over a decade. Top speed of 5 SMPH at 12 volts? Please; 12v has been the hobby standard since the 1950s, and MTH can’t even get THAT right?
Performance was better on DCC and DCS, but so what? 99.9% of HO modelers do not use DCS, and only around 30% of HO modelers DO use DCC. MTH just wrote off fully 70% of the market.
Ray
I agree that it should run good on DC if the average buyer is going to purchase it and that is the reason I asked the question. It did not start up until 9Volts was reached. One of the forum reviews has said the MR was not correct in the top speed at 36mph with 16volts, but anything over 12 to 16 volts on HO DC is out of tolerance. MR stated in the review that the MTH manual indicated this model was to operate on up to 24Volts. Did anyone at MTH check the standard voltage for HO on DC?? I don’t think so.
Most readers probably wrote off the DCS portion of the MR test and looked at the DC or DCC. Running the model on DC is a failure for sure, but they did not actually say it, but left it up to us to look at the results.
Most of us would not be able to use it with that limitations, but they did say it worked well when operated using DCC. They also printed the DCC results first, the DCS results second, and the DC results third. This order was probably done to pacify the advertising department.
The LHS had 1… and SOLD it! Wow what great news!!! Yawn.
MR stated this locomotive needed a lot of voltage (16 plus volts!) far more then any other locomotive on the market and the top speed was 35 smph…MR was also quick to notice that at 16 plus volts your other engines would needed upgrade to run on the much voltage…Also make sure your power pack can produce the voltage this engine requires.
Mr. or Ms. Howmus,
Me thinks you are out of line, certainly uninformed, or perhaps just generally ill-mannered. The LHS is question had several and they sold quickly. Perhaps there are those on this planet who don’t subscribe to your narrow buying habits.
Regards,
Mike
Well, let’s not forget that an MRC Power Command 9500, which is a better-than-average but still not out-of-sight power pack can deliver 20 volts of DC - so I think people may be making a bit much of the 16 volt business. The top speed may be a bit low, but for as long as I can remember the principal criticism of model engines has been that that lowest speed was too high, not that their highest speed was too low.
WHYIZZAT all the posts supporting MTH sound like ‘Shills’? - on the payroll?
LARRY, In no way are you a ‘shill’, but you bring up the need for MTH to have “16 volts” - if that’s what it is?
Do YOU have a 16 volt power pak?
Would YOU buy a higher volage MTH power pak just to run your MTH engines?
Do you even have a MTH engine?
It seems to me MTH wants to sell a 'Competing DSC system, requiring a 24 volt MTH power pak; and/or licensing rights to everything. - Just an opinion based on their moves.
I hope I’m wrong.
Well, I don’t know about Larry, but I have two twenty volt MRC packs of the model I mentioned above, and I’ve seen them on a few other layouts. They’re common enough. So I think the notion that a lot of people are going to have to buy other power packs to run an engine is chimerical - MRC has been making 20V packs in HO for quite some time.
In my case, I was real early in buying a CD player…back when the audiophiles were saying it was a piece of short-lived junk and that nothing would ever replace vinyl (sound familiar?).
So, when it comes to new technology in model railroading, I’m willing to expand my comfort zone.
But regardless of how you feel, isn’t it great that there are a multitude of companies, etc. in the hobby that keep pushing the envelop…to the ultimate benefit of, well, us?
Cheers,
Mike
The MRC 9500 is anything but a “mainstream” pack and is not as common as you imply. More ‘O’ gaugers would have this model than anyone else. Even on the MRC web site this is listed under the “Highpower” series.
Your Tech4’s and the older Tech 2 packs are the ones that many more modlers have. Many of these packs not only supply the power to locomotives but also to switch machines, lights, animation, etc…
I’d be willing to bet that the majority of packs out there, even considering MRC’s reputation for quality, cannot sustain the voltage output needed for the K-4 and so the low top speed posted by MR is probably closer to reality for the majority of modelers.
Don,The only thing I know about the MTH K4 is based on MR’s review by Jim Hediger…Here is a link to the review for you and all others to read.
Well, OK. But take a look at the Tech 4 packs on the MRC webpage: the minimum power they give you is still 16 volts, and several of them give you 23 volts DC (the listings are from the manual, which is accessible at the Tech 4 page (http://www.modelrectifier.com/search/product-view.asp?ID=1298). So “high power” really isn’t all that much higher (although I like the ammeter and voltmeter features, which are great for troubleshooting), and in a couple of cases is lower.
As I said before, I’m inclined to arch an eyebrow at the comments about the maximum speed. I don’t know that I’ve ever seen an HO scale layout where 82 smph would be prototypical, anyway.
Mike:
I was in the Audio biz a number of years. Those ‘Adiophiles’ - then & now - think Tube amplifiers and vinyl recorded sound are the ultimate in sonic experience. They ‘think’ they can hear a differnce - listening through speakers that are loaded with harmonic and intermodulation distortion, and from mechanical grooves with restricted lows to keep them from crashing into each other. I never heard a truly low ‘C’ in ‘Zarathrustra’ (31cps) until I got my first CD player.
SONY had a superior video format to VHS. The market didn’t care.I still have a seldom used BETA machine and PWM Analog to Digital. Where MTH ends up will be pure guesswork.
Re credentials: I might feel more comfortable had you filled out your profile. I always like to consider good sources.
Regards,
DG
This should be fairly easy to corroborate. All Mr GMFUNK has to do is give us the name of the shop that has people beating down the door for them.
Not throw a monkey at this particular wrench, but this same problem exists with ALL the command control systems that provide speed control while in an analog mode including Lionels Odyssey system, MTH’s PS2 system, the TAS EOB system and even the new Tsunami and Loksound DCC decoders. While the difference is more subtle with the DCC decoders, about 10-20 smph lost in analog mode when comparing equal command and analog track voltages, the same issue exists and the speed control setup isn’t nearly as effective in these setups either. Both the Tsunami and Loksound decoders have noticeable speed sag under load using the analog speed control and my guess is that the MTH model won’t have this problem (at least if it’s anything like the O scale models I have).
To explain why this happens, remember the extra voltage is required to compensate the locomotive under load without the operator adding voltage manually using a power pack. So in other words, if a locomotive will go 20 smph at 10 volts under no load, 16 volts may be required for that same locomotive to go 20 smph up a 4% grade while pulling it’s maximum weight in cars. The PS3 electronics have been developed to deal with this and maintain the locomotives speed regardless of load or grade conditions. My guess is that the folks at MTH thought it more important to offer a speed control system that actually works as advertised rather than the half baked attempts the DCC folks have given you… [;)]
Keep in mind while I have no direct experience with the PS3 system, I have years of experience with the PS2 system, and different types of transformers will affect they way the electronics work in very distinct ways. If you do a search in this forum, you will find an excellent customer review of the HO scale MTH K4. He reported having much higher speeds at lower voltages than the MR review did. My guess is that this is because the MR version was an early unit and may not have been tweaked for optimum
There are HO and N club layouts as well as individual modelers that own layouts with long stretches. The prototype Pennsylvania K4 as well as the EMD E-unit diesels regularly ran at 90+ mph.
At my club (Suncoast MRR Club) I run my E8 at 80 scale mph hauling SCL passenger trains on the long stretches and smoothly slow her down approaching curves.
For the money I expect top notch performance and while I wouldn’t plan on hauling long trains with my locomotives at Metroliner speeds…I’d sure like to know that they are capable of it.