I currently do not have any HO scale locomotives (steam or diesel) from MTH. I was wondering how MTH compares with other manufacturers such as Broadway Limited, Atlas, Kato, and Proto 2000. Any experiences or thoughts would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance,
Terry
I own Diesel locos from all these manufacturers, I think MTH SD70ACe, the only MTH I have, is equal but no better than the others except may be BLI.
Some details are oversize and to my eyes the trucks sideframes lack relief, mine has problems with handrails and run a little louder than Atlas, Kato and P2K. Overall it is a good buy.
If you search this forum with the key word “MTH” you will find tons of pages with information on your subject, so I won´t repeat all of that.
In general, MTH´s HO scale products are high-quality products. The only drawback I see is that they use their own proprietary DCS system, which has some limitations on a DCC operated layout.
MTH entered the HO hobby with a bit of a chip on its shoulder, and it built a chip on the shoulders of many HO hobbyists as a result. However, there are signs that they are mellowing a bit and they are now producing models that are able to be retrofitted with a DCC decoder with ease, and those models are strictly DC when they are sold. Their DCS models so far can operate effectively on DCC systems, but a DCC user can’t access all the capabilities that the DCS decoders offer.
Quality wise, they are very good to excellent, judging from comments I have read. They are not immune to some quality assurance problems, just like everyone else.
Crandell
Although I don’t personally own any MTH locomotives, I have seen a couple of them up close. While I don’t think their detailing is quite as nice as BLI, the Mohawk and Empire State Express I saw had a very smooth drive train. I’m not very keen on the DCS decoder because of its limitations when operating in DCC.
Tom
I’ve only been spectator to the MTH engines. A firend of mine owns a diesel (maybe 2 by now) and it rnns fine. May be a bit pickier on power needs than some, but it does.
the MTH K4 I’ve seen had the smoke on, and it tripped my asthsma that hadn’t done anything in YEARS. But she sounded purty. Haven’t seen it bvut the one time.
The 4449 not so much. Nice enough engine, the chuff sounds nice, but that stem whistle IS NOT the 4449. Way high in the octive. It’s also the most frequent vistor to the club, and I’ve spent many a trip chaising down a runaway locomotive, due to that blashphemy of a decoder they put in it. For whatever reason, it’ll start or stop on its own, make random sounds, turn random sounts off, accelerate rapidly, and the only cure is to tip it off the rails. (kills power to it to refresh, but is easier to re-rail because the flanges fall back into place)
FAr as details go, I see no real difference between them and anyone else. I’ve not had a Kato engine, but between MTH, P2K, Atlas, BLI, I really see no difference. there are clues in any engine if you are familiar enough, but nothing to makeme say that MTH is vastly superior.
I have 4 MTH loco’s and am happy with them. The Steamers all have cast boilers which is a plus over most others but a tad pricey. The Diesels are good quality as well and are on par with the likes of Atlas, Athearn, Bli etc.
I also have a few MTH models - a mix of steam, the UP Turbine and LIttle Joe. I will also say they are exceptionally smooth runners, and their decoder/speaker combo puts out a nice crisp sound. But, I wish they’d dump this DCS-only business model and give us more DCC-ready options.
I operate diesels from Atlas (Gold). BLI (Paragon), and MTH. I only run engines with sound. MTH puts out a very nice clear sound, it’s sounds are also louder than the others. There are times I find myself “leaning” to hear some of the sounds from the other engines, not with the MTH. She is a very smooth runner, a monster puller, probably has a lot to with the fact that she has some weight to her. I’m very happy with MTH and look forward to new releases.
Enjoy!
David
The MTH K4 had the worst smelling smoke of all time. I distinctly remember that awful stench from several of their K4’s on different layouts. It smells like really strong burnt popcorn smell or some other electronic burning smell. It was very nauseating which prompted me to sell mine. I couldn’t figure it out, and again, this was on all of their K4’s apparently, I’ve heard similar reports from others.
That engine was kind of a disappointment compared to their newer offerings. It was a tad jerky at slow speed and the wireless tether was primitive in comparison to later releases. It was a nice looking HO engine though.
In the past I have owned several others, the Class J and the Empire State Express which ran flawlessly (and they fixed the smoke problem on these btw), but the DCS issue drove me batty, so I traded them in for some more Broadway stuff.
From what I have read here, MTH locos are really no better than other other locos in their price range.
The biggest reason I will not buy one from them has been mentioned a few times here already…their proprietary DCS system is the best to use for the full value of their locos and they want you to buy their propriety DCS system to run their locos on. I will not buy a product that will not play nicely with my DCC system or that I have to buy their system to run, and then buy only their locos to run on it to get the full use. I think that’s bogus. Industry standards were set up for a reason, not for someone to go off on their own proprietary tangent to make you buy more from them.
If you do a search on MTH threads, the DCS dislike and limited use on DCC systems keeps coming up.
Just my [2c] worth.
Terry…
I own both steam and diesel locomotives from MTH and they are reliable, and durable models, very well done, well detailed and excellent performing pullers.
Each model has its own characteristics, so it may depend on which model you are considering.
I can tell you that the DCS (protosound3.0) versions run just fine(flawlessly) with any DCC command system and can also run with Kato, Athearn and Atlas locomotives without any problems(a few posters on here elude to DCS being a ‘problem’ which is a misconception) with some minor programming.
DCS has nothing to do with the operating performance of the locomotive in conjuction with your dcc system or other locomotives - only it’s internal features - if you have a 28 function capable controller, you can access the same features, allthough the DCS TIU will allow you even more capability.
The speed steps are set and programmed at the factory to scale mph increments so these engines start from a crawl very smoothly. I routinely match my other locomotives to run with the SD70ACe models and they really work well together.
As a matter of fact, the others run better with the newer settings. You can utilize JMRI software, or others available - or, just custom speed match if you want.
More importantly, if you like to install your own decoder, MTH is starting to offer DCC ready versions at a lower cost that the factory sound versions.
You’ll see more of these being released in the future but some may not be available with DCC only.
If you want a locomotive that will last for years, nicely detailed and can pull exceptionally well you can’t go wrong with this brand.
Their selection of available models is limited compared to others but new releases are alwa
[quote user=“Heritagefleet1”]
terryb:
… Any experiences or thoughts would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance,
Terry
Terry…
I own both steam and diesel locomotives from MTH and they are reliable, and durable models, very well done, well detailed and excellent performing pullers.
Each model has its own characteristics, so it may depend on which model you are considering.
I can tell you that the DCS (protosound3.0) versions run just fine(flawlessly) with any DCC command system and can also run with Kato, Athearn and Atlas locomotives without any problems(a few posters on here elude to DCS being a ‘problem’ which is a misconception) with some minor programming.
DCS has nothing to do with the operating performance of the locomotive in conjuction with your dcc system or other locomotives - only it’s internal features - if you have a 28 function capable controller, you can access the same features, allthough the DCS TIU will allow you even more capability.
The speed steps are set and programmed at the factory to scale mph increments so these engines start from a crawl very smoothly. I routinely match my other locomotives to run with the SD70ACe models and they really work well together.
As a matter of fact, the others run better with the newer settings. You can utilize JMRI software, or others available - or, just custom speed match if you want.
More importantly, if you like to install your own decoder, MTH is starting to offer DCC ready versions at a lower cost that the factory sound versions.
You’ll see more of these being released in the future but some may not be available with DCC only.
If you want a locomotive that will last for years, nicely detail
I am following up on this thread. I appreciate all of the insight everyone offered. After considering everyone’s comments, I decided to try one of the MTH 2-8-4 Berkshire locomotives with the Proto 3.0 sound.
The locomotive and tender are detailed very well including the cab interior. It is smooth running at all speeds. The chuffing is in sync with the starting and running speed. The smoke also corresponds to the “chuff bursts” when starting then becomes more steady at speed. It runs well out of the box without adjustments. There are many settings that can be adjusted with DCC. The locomotive will run in DC mode as well with smoke and sound but there is not a way to sound the horn and bell. All in all, I would say that that I’m well pleased with the locomotive.
Terry
Thanks for taking the time to close the loop, Terry. Despite some resentment and misgivings by quite a few posters here, the fact is that MTH does a credible job in the production of HO scale locomotives, especially now that they have agreed to allow purchases of strictly DC/DCC-ready items. If people such as you continue to try them, and they prove to gain an enviable reputation, it can’t be bad for the hobby in general.
Crandell
I have no problem with theMTH locomotives per se. But regardless of the DCS/DCC controversy, I would never buy a MTH product as I would then condone the business ethics of that company!
They could make the best locomotives in the world and sell them for bananas, I still don´t need them in the hobby. Regardless of how MTH try to revamp their image, they still have a tainted corporate logo in my book.
I think they might believe that I´m stealing their intellectual property as I write this, so I better stop…
As I don´t want to go to Court!
Actually much of the MTH bashing has been correct and the result is that MTH actually released a DCC ready loco. I own 4 of their loco’s and am happy with them. 2 of them I changed the decoders because of their insistance of limiting dcc functions and putting out un-truths about a pending free upgrade for the SD-70Aces a year ago. A search of the forums will back it up. MTH never put out an official statement but trickled it out by word of mouth which was repeated many times over on the forums. If the posters were incorrect, MTH should have corrected for the record.
I will say though that they put out a quality product.
OK, how about some fact based comments:
From everything I have seen first hand on the several models I have been able to inspect, the build quality of MTH models is very good - maybe the best in the industry.
If you operate with DC, you will likely not be happy with the performance of thier DCS/DCC models. They require more voltage than is commonly accepted as standard in HO based on NMRA Recommended Practice. The voltage they require to run at prototypical medium to high speeds is more than ANY other product in the industry and is at the very top of NMRA Standards and Recommended Practices.
They are now starting to offer DC/DCC ready versions of their product - this is a welcome change in a policy that left a large part of the market feeling “snubed” by MTH. It has yet to be confirmed if ALL future models will be offered DC/DCC ready - let’s hope so.
Many of the models I have seen first hand have excelent detail. Some however seem to have at least some details which seem crude and oversized. Some details on some pieces are clearly larger than they should be.
In their defense, they are not the only brand that seems to have compromised detail for durablity or because they think the play value of sound & smoke are more “valued” features - I guess that depends on your target market.
Tender spacing on some steam loco models has been an issue. The tenders on many earlier models where way back to allow sharp curve operation with no provisions for closer coupling on larger curves. It is my understanding that there have been improvements on this issue as well.
These locos ALL get very good reviews regarding there running quality - smooth, great slow speed, etc.
Prototypical accuracy has been compromised on serveral models - example - many of the road names offered on 2-8-4 do not have road specific details, but rather all are just NKP versions of this loco. Other brands seemed to have no problem tooling up these small changes
Why is this such a big issue? I mean really, who cares. If you like the MTH locos, then buy them, if you don’t, then don’t buy them.
End of story, enough already…
Pardon me for inserting my opinion, but as a model railroader who appreciates the input provided by these forums, (whether or not I agree with the input) I find the tone of this thread to be in direct opposition to the normally friendly banter that we all enjoy. Let’s all cool our jets, so to speak. OK?[swg]
Dave