Not my words but here is one post I just did on another forum. The person challenged to compare and listed features. My answers have the A next to them. The forum was in Train Orders. I think I found where the MTH crowd hangs out LOL.
Hamltnblue Wrote:> If that’s all they have then
it’s far from being equal rather than superior.
There isn’t anything >in that link that stands out
and most if not all is available in DCC and then
some.
Oh really? Let’s go through this:
9 Independent Volume Control Settings - with
DCC you have to program CV’s, no CV on DCS and DCS
gives more options
A. The Paragon DCC loco’s have 24 independent volume control settings.
16 Adjustable Chuff Rate Settings - with DCC you
have to program CV’s. Never going to achieve
accuracy without a CAM
A. The Paragon DCC loco above doesn’t need chuff rate settings. It’s simply alligned with the drivers. The Tsunami has more thatn 16 settings if the cam isn’t used and the unit can be tuned to the actual loco.
3 Adjustable Smoke Intensity Settings - Not on
DCC
A. The Paragon 2 has 90 settings. See CV236
Adjustable Brake Sound Effects - Not on DCC
A. The Paragon 2 has 255 sensitivity setting for break squeal plus the settings for volume. Most higher en
As for the uncouplers - there were DCC uncoupelrs I’m pretty sure BEFORE MTH had them in DCS - at the very least in HO long before MTH made an HO loco. And using regualr Kadee couplers, too. Remote uncouplers were possible with the old Lionel radio control system they had in the late 40’s even.
Of course the #1 reason DCC is superior - CHOICE. I can’t go buy my favorite loco under DCS - because MTH doesn’t make one, and I cannot just add a DCS decoder to any old HO loco because they don’t sell them seperately. I can buy any loco I want from a myriad of manufacturers and add a decoder to it. With DCS I am stuck with whatever MTH decides to make.
Between QSI, Loksound, Sountraxx, and BLI, any non-gimmicky feature of DCS is available in DCC. That microphone thing isn’t for communications between engineers and the dispatcher - it’s to TALK FROM YOUR LOCO. OK so maybe if I had a Thomas and wanted to make him talk for the kids… but I don’t think MTH has a Thomas with DCS in any scale! Plus I model a railroad and era where they didn;t have radios in the cabs, so the radio chatter that’s been in Loksound decoders for years is one of those function keys I NEVER hit.
Still waiting for some actual evidence that DCS is superior, besides that MTH says so. A completely one-vendor solution from the controller right down to the locos you can run. 4 letters describe that: FAIL.
The #2 reason why DCC is a better choice than DCS is the built-in 1 scale MPH per speed step deal of DCS. I do not want any locomotive on my layout capable of going 128 scale MPH. I want all my locomotives geared to reach a normal prototype operating speed (not the maximum speed of the prototype) on 12 volts DC, period. Usually, this means I prefer my steam engines to have 12 volt speeds of around 45 scale MPH (25-30 for switchers and most narrow gauge), and 10-12 scale MPH for geared steam. With realistic gearing, I am operating my HO/HOn3 layout for realism, not like the 3 rail O toys I enjoyed so much. With realistic gearing, I can get nice smooth running at switching speeds without resorting to heat-generating narrow spike pulses.
I see MTH as having carried over many of their 3 rail O “features” to their HO line-up, assuming that these “features” are wanted by HO modelers with the will and means to pay MTH prices.
My personal belief is that if MTH would take time to understand what their HO customers really wanted, they could double or triple their sales of a given locomotive. Rip out DCS, and put in a quality DCC sound decoder, already set up to match the model’s prototype. Gear the locomotives to run
Sounds like the ol VHS vs Betamax arguments to me. Glad I got the VHS (Digitrax).
Seriously, I’m sure MTH has his reasons, but it seems like he is fighting a losing battle. Actually, we all lose because those of us with DCC will be prone not to buy anything MTH.
As the old song says…“you can’t roller skate in a buffalo herd” (at least not for long).
onboard microphone…yea,the engineer may as well wear a microphone while he listens to kids near the engine and talk to the kids, Thomas the Tank any one? We already have chatter talk now on Paragon2…its unrealistic, really, a gimmic even for DCC, I tend to think BLI did this as a competitive response. If anyone talks to my steamer I will hit the pop valve… ever stand next to an engine with the pop valve going off…8-P…I’ll talk with my whistle, and many steam engineers were experts working their whistle. Might be useful for switching but on the club layout we ran engineer/conductor and they followed their train, they can talk to each other just fine, or use hand signals. If any manufacturer wants to do anything then add a camera in every engine. That will puss my boots. What I don’t like about the DCS is simply its proprietariness, and its technical incompatibilities to the broader base DCC. I am sure Mike would love manufacturers swamp to his side, but its like the computer biz, PC vs Console games. There are plenty of 3rd party manaufactures making cool things for DCC like Dispatcher displays, thottles, and so on. What I challenge any manufacture is to make a realistic thottle with physical throtle/brake/reverse controls, hand held. I have tinkered this in DC, with success. DCS only causes feature incompatibilites, making you use DCC or DCS. Suppose another manufacturer comes along and makes their own DCX system incompatible to anyone else and have or claim X plus features beyond DCC or DCS? Fooey, the HO world needs compatibility, the manufactures need reliable standards for everything as do the customers, the competition creates more problems than solutions.
For me, following the standard is important. I never was interested in the proprietary systems. So I was firmly DC until there was a DCC standard. Even if NCE goes out of business I can go right on buying/equipping locos with DCC decoders that work with my NCE system. Or I can buy a different system and have it work with my locos.
Whats this about a microphone inside the locomotive? Did I read that right? Why the heck would anyone want to talk to their loco? Do you literally have to put your face up to the cab and say something? If this is what MTH is doing to model railroading, I want no part of it.
And for all of the reasons mentioned above…that’s why I stay with straight DC, no pulse power, no gimmicks, nothing to hassle with, just put the train on the track on crank up the throttle.
Not really - Beta actually WAS technically superior. But had 2 main failure points. FIrst it was proprietary and Sony wouldn’t license it (seems like they never learned, either, until Blu-Ray), and second, it couldn’t record 120 minutes on one tape so movies often didn’t fit. In the case of DCC it’s the technically superior product that is freely licensed and that not as good one kept proprietary.
Either the DCS people actually believe the hype or MTH employees are hanging in that forum. I could believe talking at their cab and having it come out of the loco speaker of Thomas if they actually had Thomas LOL. The people that run DCS and are HO are missing out on a lot. They can’t have much as far as diesel loco’s and the steamers all cost 400 bucks. They have to walk around in train shows seeing 99% of the loco and other electronic products that wont work on their layout. Now if that’s superior I’m totally missing something.
I also read the literature on the product on their site. First they don’t have much for product, and second the wireless controllers have a big 50 foot range. I confirmed that on the same thread with their users.
Should you want that though, you can make DCC do the same thing (provided the loco can run 128mph - for the most part those days are behind us, even in N scale).
MTH SAID they were going to release DC only versions of their locos, but I haven’t seen any yet. Such a product should allow proper operation on standard 12V DC plus you could install your choice of DCC decoder if you were so inclined. Still remains that they have to release a loco that actually fits my prototype and era,
I think this should be the next top ten on the Letterman show
Well no one can say you don’t offer an intelligent argument obviously someone (Randy) has done his home work, now can you tell me how to get the clock to stop blinking on my VCR? I own more a few MTH locomotives and besides price I think there biggest downfall is not having all the DCS functions available in DCC.if so that would make them much more palatable for the consumer.
Blinken lights on VCR? REAL easy to fix. First acquire the necessary tools. There’s only one. A medium size hammer. Next, apply hammer sharply to clock display on VCR. Problem solved. If some blinking still remains, repeat until all blinking has stopped.
It is impossible to fight ignorance sith intelligence and why I now stay out of the debate. As long as we have migration from tinplate where MTH rules to HO we will have this problem
I’m sure that would make good business sense, but even then they are behind the curve. They are a high-end manufacturer, price-wise, and I don’t hear a lot of complaints about their quality. But if you look at what other high-end companies are doing, their engines all come out with DCC and sound. It wouldn’t surprise me if DCC with sound is now over half the market for new, high-quality engines, and MTH is ignoring that segment of the hobby.