MTH Warranty Failure

Garden Railroading
1

Three weeks ago I met Andy Edleman Vice-President Marketing MTH at Railroad Festival at Owosso MI.

I talked to him about my 2 GG-1s that failed.

He asked if I went to MTH’s Customer support page on MTH’s web site.

I told him I filled out the request for service help form about one month ago.

He asked what happened to the GG-1s.

I told him in detail.

I was running the engines as a lash-up with MTH’s TIU.

All of a sudden one went to max speed. When ever power was applied. The engine went to max speed.

After I removed itfrom the tracks. I was running the other engine.

When I turned off the engine sound to hear TV. I heard a bad grinding noise.

I told him I brought the engines to the fest in an attempt to get MTH to fix the engines.

He said he would not except the engines.

NOW MTH GG-1 were just shipped for sale.

I also told him that the engines were returned to MTH immediately after I received them for problems.

Andy Edleman handed me his card. He requested I fill out the on-line forms again and mention that I talked to him about getting service.

That night back in Motel 6 on Denny’s WIFI. I filled out MTH’s on-line forms again.

Well it has been three weeks to the day and I received no reply.

I also mentioned that the rail wipes on their engines are major problems.

I explained that the wipes short across the frog rails on Aristo Craft switches and short out.

The shorting blew out the power transistors on the #2 power output.

2

Sounds like you are a victim of poor Quality Control and improper product testing to rush the product to market. You might consider copy and paste this post to other forums, then include links to these pages in your next email to them. I’ve not had any kind of problem from any of their products. Then again, what I buy, from any vendor, is stuff that has been around for a while IOW, give them time to work out the bugs that are inherent with any new product.

I know it is a real pain in the “tail feathers” to buy the latest and gratest, only to find that it will not perform as advertised and expected.

3

“All of the sudden one went to max speed” That can happen, the PS2/DCS system encodes the motor RPM and the microprocessor converts it to speed. It’s encoded by putting a “band” on the flywheel with alternating white and black stripes. The flywheel passes a sensor that reads the reflected light from the white as a “one” and no reflection from the black as an “zero”. Most likely one of the three fine wires from the sensor is off or broken or an impact has opened up the tight gap on between the flywheel and sensor.

Grinding noise? MTH, like Lionel and American Flyer, use metal gearing, Steel Worm on a Bronze Gear. Turn off the smoke unit, I’ve had problems with the smoke unit fan.

MTH, LGB, and USA all use Pick Up Sliders, I paint the top and side of the sliders flat black. I have had slider problems with some USA and Early Aristo-Craft switches. The newer Aristo-Craft switches replaced the brass “guide rails” with plastic, fixed the problem. I have converted 5 Aristo-Craft locomotives to MTH/DCS control, Aristo uses all wheel axle pickup, no traction tires, works great. On the other hand, why would MTH put driver pickups on drivers with Traction Tires???

I have had good luck with MTH for problems and parts. At the twice a year TCA York meet you get to talk with Mike Wolf, Andy Edleman, Rich Foster, and the service technicians. They also have a parts department at TCA York.

Try contacting Andy by E-Mail, remind him again of your talk at your show.

Try AndyE@MTH-Railking.com

Also, Midge Wilburn has been helpful in the past Midge@MTH-Railking.com

4

Thanks for this. I am sorry for your trouble, but at least now I know to stay clear of MTH. Was looking at the DCS control system. No longer.

5

Keep in mind that MTH is the second largest toy train company, behind Lionel, in the United States. They make their money in “O Gauge” while “G” and “HO” were only entered by them about 6 years ago. The DCS/PS2, a 3 rail AC track control system, was also designed to allow operation on 2 rail DC, as is used in “HO” and “G” gauge. The system is also compatible with the Lionel TMCC system. Yes, your MTH “G” trains can run on ether a DC or AC power supply. Many many thousands of “O Gauge” trains are running on DCS/ PS2 control across America. The new DCS/PS3 system, already released for “HO Gauge”, has both the MTH DCS and a NMRA standard DCC decoder built in.

6

Lionel and MTH are larger than Walthers or Athearn? By what measure? Facts please.

I suspect the only thing larger is the size of each train.

Sheldon

7

Not directing this at you…so nuthin personal…but I’m real proud of um. Often times biggest ain’t the best. Besides, I’ve almost just decided to stay DC and go with good old fashioned blocks. I know there are more modern methods, but for me, that’s probably all I’ll need.

8

The problem with the rail wipe is it drops down into a space (gap) Aristo Craft designed into the frog of the switches. I wrote to Aristo about the problem as suggested in a different forum here. The wiper then get caught between the two rails and shorts the supply.

All of my Aristo engines have rail wipes. They are designed differently. They also short between frog rails.

I received a new shipment of Aristo’s wheel brushes. I will remove all the wipers from my MTH engines.

I lubracated the gear boxs before running all my MTH engines as instructed. But it is a guess-t-mate how much gets inside.

9

Keep in mind, “O” gauge is bigger and more expensive. Lionel Sets start at about $200 and run up to $2500 for a full scale/detailed set. Locomotives start about $70 and run to $1500.

(checking the company Web Pages and Wikipedia.org)

Athearn was founded in 1938 by Irvin Athearn, it was sold to Horizon Hobby in 2004. Horizon Hobby is an employee-owned international company operating in “more than 50 countries”. Making all types of hobby related products, they, being a Private Held, do not report sales volume. All production was moved overseas in 2009.

Walthers, also a Private Held, was founded in 1932 by Bill Walthers.“We provide information on over 200,000 different items for your trains from over 300 manufacturers – and supply them to thousands of hobby shops around the globe!”.

Lionel was founded by Joshua Lionel Cowen in 1900. From that begining, 109 years ago in New York, Lionel has sold more than 50 million trains, more trains than all of Lionel’s competitors combined. Operating as Lionel Manufacturing (1900-1916), Lionel Corporation (1916-1969), Lionel MPC, a div. of General Mills (1970-1985), sold to Dick Kughn a Train Collector from Detroit it became Lionel Trains Inc. (1985-1995), then under Wellspring Capital Management (1995-Present) Lionel LLC. Lionel was forced into a brief banckrupcy protection as a result of a

10

All production was NOT moved overseas in 2009, blue box kits and many of the parts assembled in China are still made at the California plant. Being privately held, we have no idea if they are bigger or smaller than Lionel or MTH.

BUT, even at the lower average price, and even taking into account the increased interest in O gauge through the last decade, HO & N scale modelers still out number all the others scales by at least 5 to 1 based on every industry/magazine survey done in recent times.

AND, while HO may cost less per item, its smaller size allows much more of it to be “installed” on a layout of a given area. This makes the expendature per square foot of layout similar if not higher in HO or N scale.

AND, as a group, a larger precentage of HO or N scale modelers are just that, modelers, buying not only locos, rolling stock and track, but also large quantities of structures, scenery materials, accessories, etc., as opposed to the large segment of the O gauge market who have barely even removed their trains from the box let alone built a layout.

I will use myself personally as an example: I am building an HO layout that fills an 800 sq ft room with two seperate scenic decks, has a 500’ double track main line, over 100 turnouts, 8 radio throttles, full signaling and detection, and will require 20-25 staged trains. Each train will require 3-4 powered diesels or 1-2 large steam locos, for a total loco roster of over 100 powered units. Most of which I have. My loco fleet alone represents aproximately $15K. Track and turnouts another $5K or more.

11

Sheldon,

I agree with 99% of what you said. No question that “HO” is the most popular Model Train gauge. A large % of the “HO” market is in kits as well as pre-built, true hobbyists. Last year I assembled several Mantua Kits from the 1940s.

The Wikipedia on-line encyclopedia under Arthearn ??:

“In mid-2009, all remaining US production was moved to China and warehousing moved to parent Horizon Hobby. Sales and product development was relocated to a smaller facility in Long Beach, CA.”

MTH Electric Trains:

When MTH sued Lionel and won, they got a lot of “HO” tooling from Lionel’s builder, Korea Brass. The new locomotive have sound, smoke, and both MTH’s PS-3 digital control and the fully compatible NMRA standard DCC control installed.

I am primarily a Collector of old “O” gauge and an Operator of “G” gauge.

12

Don,

I don’t have much faith in Wikipedia - seen too many errors on there. Athearn may have finally moved everything overseas, but last I heard from anyone I would trust, blue box kits where still made here.

Very nice display. I am the direct oposite. I don’t collect at all. I can count on one hand all the rolling stock I own that does not fit the theme of my layout.

Mike Wolf has seriously misjudged the HO market, even with the increase in RTR and collector interests in HO, he is ignoring large segments that spend lots of money. And, it has been my experiance working in the hobby field, that collectors buy with the economic cycle, but modelers spend more consistantly regardless of the stock market or other ups and downs. This makes them a better “base” for any industry. Cater to them first, pick up collectors if you can.

DCC has only made a 30%-40% penitration and has leveled off in growth. True, most new comers in the future will go DCC, but most with existing layouts/equipment who will switch, have already done so. That leaves a lot DC operators out there still likely to buy locomotives. Those MTH locos that only go 25 smph at 12 volts will not be purchased by those guys. And, Mikes locos work on DCC, but you need DCS to get all the features - not good.

Most HO layouts are not just running diaplays, but are designed for some sort of simulated operation in prototype fashion. Needing multiple control systems, or not having compatiblity, is simply not acceptable.

Sound, smoke, talking conductors, etc, etc. is also of questionable appeal in HO. While many do like sound, there are many who do not like it the smaller scales or who are indifferent. This too is a area Mike does not understand. If he offered his locos in a 12 volt DC, non sound version, I may have some interest when he finaly comes out with something that has not already been done 50 times o