This topic is somewhat related to the previous thread on engine power but I didn’t want to take away anything from it. When you had a long train with say a lashup of F7A,B,B,A, are all the units in constant use while the train was running? Was there just one engineer required in the front F7A controlling with M.U.? Also in the steam days before electrical M.U. operation, was it just too expensive and not worth it to have multiple steam engines on very long trains to cut down on the number of trains? Or was it a horsepower issue.
When units are in a consist they can either be on or off line, running or dead. If they are running and on line they are providing power. If they are off line or dead they are not providing power. The engineer can manually set individual engines on or off line, and shut down individual units. Normally all the units in a consist are operating.
Yes, that’s the whole point of MU.
No it was they were steam engines. They were operated by fire. You had to have a person shovel coal on the fire to keep it going. The control system was entirely mechincal, nothing was electrical. The operation of a steam engine was much more complicated than the operation of a diesel. A diesel has 8 choices for throttle settings. A steam engine has thousands of combinations.
Usually all units in a consist such as a A-B-B-A would be working…The unit consist would have the require number of units needed to get the train over the division and would be working…Any locomotive(s) being deadheaded would have the power shut off as classified as being dead in tow.
Also engineers got extra pay for extra locomotives above the required locomotive consist needed for his train so,railroads would shut the deadheaded locomotives down in order not to pay the engineer extra…I am not sure if that still applies to today’s engineers since a lot of Union work rules has changed.
Many coal hauling railroads such as the B&O, Clnichfield, N&W just to name a few better known one’s all ran multi locomotives consists when it was called for. crews wold typically communicate by hand signals. When it came to moving more freight which = higher revenues the railroads were not above trying or doing anything. What was a very common site back in the days of steam trains was helper picked up along the way such as that extra oomph to get up an over a long hill or mountain range
Whistle signals. Hard to see hand signals at night. Rights of Trains has several pages of detail about the specifics of which signals mean what.
One of my favorite Y6 photos is a single loco waiting on a siding in the middle of nowhere for the next train that would need help up the Blue Ridge - ten or a dozen in a twelve hour shift.
I recall a story about a SP crew which would cycle units off-line on the flat, so they would be cooler (and less prone to overheat) when the train tackled a grade east of Yuma.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
Whistle signals. Hard to see hand signals at night. Rights of Trains has several pages of detail about the specifics of which signals mean what.
Chuck.
No always…A starbrite lantern throws a powerful beam that the engineer can see…We also use flares for hand signaling…Radios has all but replaced hand signals and most cities,towns and railroads have horn restrictions or “quiet zones”.
Why is that? Excessive horn blowing during the night brings complaints or class action lawsuits from the NIMBYs.
As a example PRR’s Grandview yard had whistle restrictions…Certain times we could not sound the horns…This was especially true between 10pm and 7am.
As some here are alluding to, double heading steam locos was not unheard of, even at speed. For example, the PRR double headed K-4 Pacifics on fast passenger trains when the trains needed more power-- sometimes at 90 mph! It was possible with careful coordination and communication between the two engine crews.
Also in some situations, helpers would be put on the front end to assist the lead loco in mountain railroading or to balance power to get a loco to another location on the RR.
In the late steam era a large steam loco may have 4000 horsepower or more so it wasn’t that necessary to keep adding steam locos to the front end and would risk pulling out drawbars. However, this could be achieved in mountain territory by distributing the steam locos in other locations in the train.
Chuck and Larry thanks for stirring up those visuals I have a ton of old 8x10 glossy black & whites (that what pictures used to look like for you digital guys and I think I may actually have a photograph of a Y^ doing just that or well being creative one could imply such. Another noteworthy point in Steam history was the legendary Erie Triplex when talking about pushers or helpers. As the present story has it which in fact is not totally true it was said the Triplex had so much tractive effort that it would rip the draw bars or couplers right out of the tenders.So they were relegated to helper service. I have a friend who has pictures proving different. Yes no question they were mighty beasts maybe the mightiest of all but they did pull trains. I’m sure the alleged incidents of snapping drawbars may have been at the hands of an engineer who was not as experienced or just had no way of knowing how much power that monster had.
Yes the fact of double heading K4’s on the PRR seacoast line is a well known fact as it was most likely done on just about every other line in the country. I think the part that a lot of people today have believing such stories or even fathoming the possibility of such things happening is do mainly to we as a society getting soft and used to things happening in comfort and ease. These were iron beast tamed and operated by iron men who took on such challenges with lets say a vengeance I can still recall stories told to me by my great uncle who was an engineer on the D&H and later on the Erie and eventually retiring from the Erie Lackawanna about throwing down the gauntlet almost literally between engineers. It was a matter of pride not to be out done by your co-workers. So if someone set a record you were almost honor bound to try and beat that record.
Just to maybe clarify a little, diesel engines are really diesel-electric engines, the diesel motors create electricity which run the motors in the trucks of the locomotives. Because of this, you can connect several engines together and control all of them from one control stand, since the controls are electrical and the power running the engines are electrical.
Re steam engines and doubleheading, that was the point of a Mallet - essentially two steam engines with one crew. It was cheaper in the long run (in many railroads estimation) to get a big 2-8-8-2 and just pay one crew rather than buy two 2-8-2’s and have to pay two crews, one for each engine.