multiple schemes newbe question

Model Railroader General Discussion (Model Railroader)
1

Hello from Greece!

I’m new in the hobby and going to start a small switching layout.
Until now I have a few items of rolling stock, which I have to order from abroad as no shop here sells US train models (except some Marklin and Trix).
I have 2 GN locos, 1BN and 1 NS.

I’m going to model a period between 1960s and 1970s , as I like a lot early diesels and the fallen flags.

And now I need your help.
I like a lot of schemes and don’t know which one to model.
I probably will go freelance but want to make it realistic or play with a fictional but realistic scenario.

Any ideas so that I can have as many schemes as possible?

If I wanted to go prototypical, what is the best option to have many schemes?
E.g. to choose a more recent era and go with BNSF so that I have BN and ATSF locos?
Another company with many schemes at the same time?

2

Hello and Welcome to the forums![#welcome]

I’m not too good with the older stuff, but if you modeled Conrail, you could model a variety of older equipment from fallen flags. Prepare to weather alot!

You could also model either Norfolk Southern or CSX. They bought Conrail, so you could model either. They still have lots of locomotives that have not yet been repainted or have patches.

Or… You could model Canadian National. They have a varitey of old and new equipment, alot from railroads they bought, such as Wisconsin Central, Duluth Missabe and Iron Range, Illinois Central etc…

All these railroads also have run through power.

Hope this can be of use to you.

3

Kiriakos,

I think the BN and the time period you have selected '60s to '70s is a good choice for many schemes. Having grown up in the MidWest during this time, I saw many combinations of the Northern Pacific, Great Northern, Chicago Burlington and Quincy, and Burlington Northern on actual trains running through town. This included the passenger trains as well as locomotive combinations.

I model the Santa Fe because of the different color schemes and locomotive variety. I model the Rock Island primarily because of the locomotive variety.

SantaFe_RockIsland

4

Welcome to the forum.

There are many prototype operations that had many schemes. The BN, as already mentioned, included not only its’ own scheme, but those of the predecessor roads (don’t forget SP&S). The Chicago Great Western was lucky to have 2 F units in the same scheme in any one train same with the Minneapolis and St Louis on their Alcos. Rock Island could be seen in 4 different paint schemes, Maroon, Rocket Scheme, Red and Yellow and of course Blue.

A freelance could work the same way. You could model predecessor roads (either real or fictional) or a single road that wanted to change its image but was slow to repaint older equipment.

Rick

5

[#welcome] In my opinion the BN in that era would be perfect for you. If you like older equpiment and fallen Falgs that would be a good period. If you want you could always model The Wisconsin Central.[;)] Lots of Old Second Generatition Equpiment and Fallen Flags from Algoma Central, Fox Vally Western, BN and ATSF(SD45s). But that’s my opinion…you model what you want. BTW WC locos are hard to come by.

6

Not really…Youve got your SD45’s by KATO and P2K, SD40-2’s by KATO and BLI, GP38-2’s and GP35’s By Athearn, MP15’s by Con-Cor, GP9M by Walthers, SDL39 by Overland, GP40’s by Atlas, F45’s soon by Athearn, etc etc.

7

If you are considering a single railroad then the GN switched paint schemes in 1969. So there was the orange/green scheme and the big sky blue scheme. This was immediately followed by the BN merger in 1970 so anywhere on the system one could find the new BN green scheme, the old GN orange, the new GN blue, CB&Q silver or red, C&S red, SP&S tan, NP dark green freight and NP Lowey green. I think it would be really hard to beat that for number of choices. Plus the BN system extended through mountains, plains, and deserts so you can have your choice of scenery.

Many of the other mega-mergers would allow a bunch of schemes but I don’t think so many colors!

Another thing to consider is a section of track that is shared by many railroads. For example the joint lines south of Denver. They were jointly owned by the D&RGW and Santa Fe. They were also leased to the C&S. Further MP, CRI&P, and Union Pacific trains regularly ran on them. There are probably 100s of examples of such joint trackage around.

Then as someone else mentioned there were railroads that couldn’t decide on a scheme and seemed to switch every other week (like the Minny Lou).

Or yet another option. You could model a switching area where two railroads crossed and interchanged traffic.

3992

8

The New York Central has a couple paint schemes unlike the MILW.

9

A great place to start is George Ellwood’s Fallen Flags railroad photo site. You’ll find zillions of photos of American railroads from the steam era on up to today.

Personally, I’d try to convince you to look east of the Mississippi for the best variety of equipment. The Conrail predecessors, CSX predecessors, and NS predecessors are all very interesting railroads, as are the numerous industrial lines and commuter runs.

I suggest you take some tours on-line to see how much you can learn about a variety of railroads before you settle on one.

You are welcome to begin your tour with my layout site!

Lee

10

All the suggestions so far have been great. As others have pointed out, your GN engines will fit very well in a BN train of that era. You might want to pick a year that is just after the creation of BN. In that case of course the BN paint will be sparkly new and the GN paintjobs will be fairly weathered. Other possibilities to consider:

  1. NS acquired BN or vice-versa.

  2. BN acquired a NS engine and hasn’t got around to painting it yet.

  3. NS acquired trackage rights over a certain area from BN (or vice-versa). Look at their route maps to see where this could have happened (if at all).

  4. Your GN engines could be part of a tourist train.

As far as “prototypical” goes, if you choose to go BNSF you will only see BNSF and ATSF paint schemes. Okay, maybe BN too–though I’ve not see one for a very long time. There are no GN paint schemes anymore–it’s just been too long.

Your other idea–a line that runs a lot of different railroads’ paint schemes as a matter of course–would probably not exist in real life, unless you mean that many railroads have been bought up all at one time by this one company. In that case, the company would–just like UP or BNSF have done–repaint engines to one color scheme in order to save money and maintain a sense of identity.

11

[#welcome]

You never need to restrict yourself to modelling one scheme in the modern (1955+ era). Locos as well as cars moved around where the work was and/or where they got sold on to/tumbled into mergers.

If you want to run almost anything look at Chicago any time but especially from 1975 on. Almost everyone went to Chicago at some time. Kansas is pretty good too.

Don’t forget that locos didn’t all get repainted at once when schemes changed or mergers/buyouts happened. Locos also got “patched” by new owners. Some locos never got repainted to later schemes.

Have fun

[8D]

12

Early-mid 1970’s BN wouldn’t be bad choice, since you already have 2 GN engines and 1 BN. Amtrak started in 1971, using a variety of cars from different railroads on their trains - it took them quite a while to get everything into Amtrak colors.

One problem…unfortunately Norfolk & Western / Southern merger didn’t create NS until after the GN/NP/CB&Q etc. engines had been repainted in BN colors or retired. [sigh]

13

The NS unit could be a run-through.

14

P2K dosn’t make there WC SD45s.(Unless I’m worng.)but The only place you could buy them is Ebay or a train show/swap meets. The SDL39s are discontuned by Overland(As of what I know) it would be hard to find one. Only Kalso Shops make the SDL39 but it costs 400 bucks. Atlas dosn’t make the WC GP40s any more. I do agree with the Kato SD45s, but they only come in the 6677 scheam(That’s what is says in the Walthers Catalog). BLI dosn’t make the WC or AC scheams.(I think, Not sure.)

15
  1. Yes they do.

2.Right, but they are still available.

3.Right, but they are still available.

4.Coulda sworn they made SD40-2’s…

16

They do make SD40-2s but not in WC or AC paint. Atleast I don’t think so…

17

Fine, the ‘early’ diesel period and lots of ‘fallen flags’.

Simplistically speaking RR’s used the same diesels - so the ‘paint jobs’ were the main differences.

US 'eastern & southern RR’s primarily were flatland haulers wheras western RR’s had to tackle the Rocky Mtns.

Different regions (Alleganies) hauled coal, (western plains) hauled more grain, and (SW) more cattle & oil to market.

Coal haulers tended to use slow sloggers such as 12 wheeled diesels, and perishable loads, faster 8 wheelers.

WHAT I am saying is the differences were largely scenic, and the industries served dictated the types of cars. (example: BN primarily served grain industry) - It’s port was Seattle (and the Mississippi river). - beyond that, Books with pictures of buildings will give you the best insight. Terrain & habitat.

US RR’s are privately owned freight haulers, and government subsidies have limited AMTRAK passenger service compared to Europe’s. Glamorous passenger of the 30’s trains had all but dissapeared by 1970. Air travel is better subsidized.

SWITCHING LAYOUT? How about a portside industrial district with 1 or 2 small switchers?

18

If you really want lots of colorful trains…early Conrail had quite a few paint schemes running around–Penn Central, Reading, Lehigh Valley, Erie Lackawanna to name a few. Throw in the unrepainted Pennsylvania, New York Central, and New Haven engines owned by PC…as well as the few units Conrail repainted, and things were colorful. In fact, Lehigh Valley itself had a few schemes–various shades of red on some units, and white on others.

Early Amtrak was colorful as well. On startup, they had locomotives and freight cars from just about everybody. All of their trains were interesting. For example, you’d get cars from the Santa Fe, or maybe Burlington, but with Penn Central E units. Eventually, most of that stuff eventually got repainted into Amtrak colors. What didn’t, was retired.

Now though, most of the older schemes aren’t seen as much. You probably wouldn’t see a GN-painted unit unless you’re at a museum. By now, they’ve been repainted, or in some cases, retired. Several BN green units and ATSF silver, or blue/yellow ones are still around though.

19

At first I want to thank you all for your help.

The early BN idea is very attractive because I already have a GN GP7, a GN U25b with sound (or28?) and a BN GP30. I didn’t know that BN used (at least for a little time) it’s predecessor’s locos with their original schemes. I have to make a research on the net.

CP is also attractive for me, I also didn’t know that they bought US railroads (or no?).
I also have seen photos of CP locos with BN locos together.

I liked your thoughts for NS, but I wouldn’t mind if I used it less for the start.

Shared track is another idea I’ll consider, especially if I’ll find something that includes schemes I alreay have.

Hard to find locos and schemes are somehow difficult for me, as I buy from UK and variety and supply are limited. If I buy from US I have to pay a lot for customs and posting, except for items marked as gifts.

I know the famous Fallen Flags site, but it’s a little matter of luck to find photos of mixed schemes between these zillion photos.

Also I have to think about scenery and type of car as you suggested, but think a small town could have a variety of freight cars sent to it.

I forgot to say that the layout will begin as a 2 or 3 modules modular layout (will be part of a new and first in Greece modular group, following the FREMO design – I’m the only at present with US theme).
I will use it as a simple switching layout in my home (except for meetings).
Time and place permitting I will expand this with more modules or make it part of a bigger layout.

I will make 3 or 4 small industries (or suppliers) in a small town and will have only small freight trains.
I’m in the designing of this, and if anyone thinks it may be of any interest I can post a drawing here.

So, I’ll study again your suggestions, will research the net and look again in some books I already have. If I decide a particular road, I’ll have to buy more spec

20

Life-Like currently offers GP’s painted in GN paintschemes but re-lettered for BN. Because they had so many engines and cars to repaint, at first BN often just painted over the GN or NP herald on the cab and stencilled “BN” and the new engine number on it. It probably took until the mid-70’s til all the engines got repainted; I remember seeing a CB&Q caboose in use on BN in 1984, and photographed GN-lettered freight cars in 1990!!

Before NAFTA (North American Free Trade Act) in the 90’s, all US railroads had to be majority-owned by US companies or investors, so for example the Soo Line was 49% owned by CP back as far as I think 1909?? CN’s mainline runs for about 30-40 miles thru northern Minnesota, it had to be chartered as a separate US railroad called the Minnesota and Manitoba (or was it Manitoba and Minnesota??). Anyway, now Canadian railroads have taken over control of their former US subsidiaries like Duluth Winnepeg and Pacific, Central Vermont, etc…

As far as joint lines, the CP (ex-Soo, ex-Milwaukee) and BNSF (ex-BN, ex-CB&Q) mainlines run next to each other along the Mississippi south of St.Paul MN (where I am!). They use the two lines together, so you can see BNSF or CP trains on either line. (BTW not uncommon to see BNSF or CP trains with NS engines in the consist.)