$$$ must you be rich to run garden trains?

Garden Railroading
1

I originally ran ho gauge trains. As I grew older with my eyesight slipping and fingers growing stiff I looked for a larger train that I could still have fun with. I moved to G gauge and I’m realizing that I may not be able to afford to keep up. After investing what I consider an exsorbent amount of cash on track and the rest I’m still plaged by operational problems and would have to come up with even more cash that people say I’m crazy for considering.

Aristo stainless track seemed to be the way to go. I know this company has helped the hobby grow emensely. The other track on the market uses the same joiners. The supplied rail joiners don’t work. Everyone is expected to replace them with upgrades. Why do the even supply them with the track. I have to replace them all and must come up with another couple hundred dollars and this could be the last straw. My mth dcs has required much additional investment also and I’m not a bank. In fact I lost my job. So the rest of you may be saying too bad but where does anyone tell you that to run a decent size layout with some operational interest it may cost you over ten grand or so. If anything else goes wrong I’ll sell it all and thats whats wrong with garden size railroads unless you’re happy with a small oval going around and around in circles.

2

Well…

I do not consider myself to be rich. I spend at most £10 per week on my hobby -or 15% of the cost of petrol required to get me to and from work -or 5% of the cost of the return ticket to London, (I do that run twice a week -I catch the 4.00am train).

I model in 16mm scale and latterly 13.5mm scale. The track for 16mm scale is £6.75p per yard and the track for 13.5mm scale is £15.23p per yard -and every single piece of it is hand assembled and nailed -I have the thumbs to prove it!!!

All of my models, locomotives, rolling stock, et al have been made on the small piece of work surface in my kitchen between the gas cooker and the kitchen sink. This includes live steam models of over 1 metre in length. The Wok burner does silver soldering for boiler making. I don’t have anything resembling a work shop and my only power tool is a 1950’s pillar drill and compound table that I bought at a car boot sale. I paid £29 for it, £10 less than the price tag.

There is not one item that you could point to and say -you bought this from a shop.

So, I have a garden that is 15m by 45m and I am about 40% of the track made and ready to lay. Hopefully by this time 2010 I will have my railway restored after having moved over a year ago. If you like I can show you how to make prototypically correct “chopper couplings” out of brass strip and washers, wheels can be “fly cut” from plastic .

Why people insist that this hobby is expensive is beyond me(?)

Maybe the old joke about “Rhodesians and Soup” -is true!!!

regards

ralph

3

Hi there, Sorry to hear about the job. Take care of family and your bills first, worrying about the layout should be like item #341 on your list.

What stage are you at today? how big is the layout? What climate is it in? What are your goals? Its really hard to understand and offer advice without relevent information.

Track is usually one of the biggest cost in large scale, but then it ALWAYS has been, theres alot of metal in those rails. The recent price hikes for brass and copper havent helped but with the price of brass and SS almost being equal, might as well get the SS rail. I was at the start only spending about $50-$75 a month on it, what ever track or stock I could afford is all I bought, but over time I accumulated alot of track, enough to add a 12’ x 20’ outdoor loop in addition to the 8’ x 20’ indoor layout.

The only place you should need special joiners like clamps should only be where your joining one brand to another, IOWs after a long stretch of Aristo track joined to long segment of another brand, you may need a pair of railclamps at that point but not at every track joint. The stock Aristo joiners work OK enough, even if those little set screws can be a major PITA to install.

I’ve found this scale to be cheaper than HO by a long shot. I’m dirt poor hobby-money wise…yet I’ve amassed a sizable collection over the last 6 years, and I had to forgo any kind of a layout for close to 3 years. Perseverence pays off in this scale.

It depends on how big and how fast your planning on building your layout? Too big or too fast can be a problem if the logistics of doing it begin to overwhelm. Kinda like attempting to build a full basement sized layout in HO as your first time out. I also depends on what rolling stock you can or cannot live without. MTH isn’t cheap, but if thats what you’ve decided to run then you have to accept the fact that it may take a while to aquire certain items, particularl

4

enginear,

Have you ever considered joining a RR club in your area, or if there is not one try starting one? With a club many times members share their resources. So some people may not have the room, money, or expertise to build a layout can run their equipment on other members RR’s. I feel if you look hard enough you can find a way to enjoy the hobby.

Cabbage, I have never heard the old joke about “Rhodesians and Soup”

5

[#ditto] [?]

6

(groan)…

Three hunters were walking through the veldt and they came across the fresh corpse of a WildeBeest.
The South African looked at it and said; “Poachers -the scum of the earth”.
The Zulu looked at it and said; “The smell is terrible it will attrract every hyena and vulture on the veldt”.
The Rhodesian looked at it and said; “I wonder how much soup it will make?”

regards

ralph

Post Scriptumn:

That joke dates from my school boy days -like the one “why boys are better at mathematics than girls”… (and no I am not going to explain that one -work it out yourselves!!!)

7

Hi enginear[#welcome] nice to have you on board, as some of the others have said sorry about the job. our hobby does not need to cost an arm and leg. If you are near a good G Gauge outlet they should have some good s/hand stock. You dont say where you are if you put that on the post site im sure that some one in your neck of the woods would only be to happy to help with any problems you have. As you can see im in the UK the help i get from around the world solves 99% of any probs I get Hope a new job is forth comming A,S,A,P.

8

I think its more prioity of time and money.

I don’t buy boats and RVs etc.

any trip is train related.

I work many extra hours when I can so the reward is trains.

I’m almost imbearist of all I have now. Back when I started i sold all my baby scale to buy large.

Now I only buy from a list and on sale.

9

A couple of things to add.

#1- I need railclamps for the dcs signal through the stainless rails. they are about $2.50 a piece times a zillion connections(and I’m having trouble even seeing those stupid little screws that just strip and come loose; blindness; one reason I left the small scales)

2-I live in western NY and chose to move the railroad indoors in the whole cellar because of short but enjoyable summer season that I would only run trains for maybe about six to ten good weekends. I designed a layout that would loop out a cellar window; when expanded into the yard. I made a raised road bed down one side of the yard. Now I’ll just rob a bank to get a couple more feet of track that may not even work when I try to run a train. Maybe I’ll just look at them in their package. come on, just kiddin

3- if the makers are going to raise their prices that much and then expect us to upgrade their equipment, which in any other situation would be considered a defective product, they should include the clamps!!! try contacting a manufacturer about problems and they’ll just sell you more stuff

4,5,6, more to come ( becoming bitter with no money)

10

Okay so what does a garden railroad cost to startup in todays figures? (These are just my estimates so feel free to adjust accordingly.)

You need track - 1000’ of new brass track will run about $5,700

You need a loco - Starter sets run about $160 each - lets say another $600 for 2 sets plus some other cars.

You need power and control - R/C sets run about $400 including the battery - About $600 for 2

Sound for each train will run $300 or so each - About $600

You need buildings - Figure 50 at about $15 each if you build your own - $750

You need trees and bushes - say 100 @ $10 each gets to $1000

You need ballast, rocks, and fill dirt - say about $400

You need people - say 40 @ $5 each is about $200

Finally throw in some switches, lights, and irrigation for another $500

Add it all up and you’re in the neighborhood of $10K without labor for a basic garden railroad. It goes up from there. There is a guy here in AZ with several mil wrapped up in his layout. Of course you can go with a lot less for a 100’ dogbone but those layouts eventually grow to the 1000’ size later on down the road.

Okay am I close to what you all have invested in your railroads? Many of you bought track when it was a lot cheaper so maybe my estimate is high. Also most of us have spread out our investment over several years so it may be hard to get close to today’s startup figure.

Rex

11

Those figures seem a little high. I only know one person that has 1000’ of track. Besides, this is a hobby and not a contest to impress one another. After 8 years, I now have 140’ of track and still running the first engine I purchased. Most of my buildings are scratchbuilt and the bulk of my plants were grown from seed. This isn’t really complicated and should not be about who spent how much. I am sorry that you feel so discouraged. Regards, Dennis.

12

Hi Rex, thats for a First Class set up, how about letting me down her in Steerage Class take a crack at it[;)]

Now, Keep in mind, this is only MY own perspective [8)]

You need track - 1000’ of new brass track will run about $5,700

100 feet of track is a good start, so even at $5 a foot, subtrack a zero, from both[:P]

You need a loco - Starter sets run about $160 each - lets say another $600 for 2 sets plus some other cars.

One Bachmann starter set + one HLW Mack = $160 [oX)]

You need power and control - R/C sets run about $400 including the battery - About $600 for 2

Used LGB powerpack = $10 [alien]

Sound for each train will run $300 or so each - About $600

Bachmann comes with sound built in and wood whistles only run about $10 at shows [:D]

You need buildings - Figure 50 at about $15 each if you build your own - $750

Piko entry level series $50 each for about 5 total $250, Rex has a definite advantage here [;)]

You need trees and bushes - say 100 @ $10 each gets to $1000

Since I would start smaller say 20 plants = $200, yeah they aint cheep unless you consider weeds garden varietal plants[D)]

You need ballast, rocks, and fill dirt - say about $400

got a full scope load of 1/4 crushed gravel, loaded into my truck and driven home, $50[^]

You need people - say 40 @ $5 each is about $200

Agreed expensive, s

13

enginear

I STARTED IN 1998 with a Aristo starter set and 80 ft of track for my out side lay out and a pond . start going to train shows , this is how i added more cars and engines , i also buy some things from train world in NEW YORK , their is a train show in Penna. on March 28 and 29 at York PA. Fair Grounds . THIS is also a good time to buy train thing . today i have about 40 cars and 10 engines and 80 ft of track in my basement to run trains and about 180 ft of track out side with a pond in my garden railroad . get a garden railways magazine , their is a lot of Dealers in their . BEN

14

Sorry if I offended anyone and I certainly didn’t mean to start a boasting contest. 1000’ of track is just one estimate for mainline and all the associated sidings. Yard size available is the major determining factor for how much track you can put down. I did a quick review of several railroads featured in GR. They range from 120’ to 3,000 with one at 9,800’. This month it is 1400’ in a 127’ x 200’ space. The last issue was 450’ of mainline in a 45’ x 55’ space. Certainly you can build great railroads less than 1000’. I just threw a number out. If my estimates are too high then scale them back. Growing plants from seeds is a great way to save off of my estimate of $10 a plant too. My $15 a building is just my experience for materials. If you buy kits or plastic models then the cost is much higher.

Rex

15

Hi, Sorry about the job… I want to pass on ways to move forward in the hobby on a low income… Look for closeouts at mail order firms, such as trainworld, st. albin station, watts, and etc… Move all your trains to one brand line, this will save money on parts… ebay sell off any trains that you don’t use or want and rebuy the one you do want and will use… The MTH trains are nice but I must agree on starting with a regular power pack and then when you have money to buy the DCS system for those loco’s then do so… Start small on track, start with a oval ( 8 foot radius - R3 LGB) of track and add a couple of switches for like a siding and a factory so your railroad will have a purpose… to wire your layout is to put jumper wires every 6 to 10 feet of track, this will cure your power problems… Buy one item each year that is a must have, such as a engine or rolling stock, work monthly on the purchase of track or buildings for the layout, set a goal for having a larger layout in a two year run… Start with a layout size of about 10’ X 13’ with the track I stated above and in two years have the goal of a 20’ X 30’ and keep on going from there… This is the best of model railroading as you can get… I went out of other scales to only do G scale and I will never look back… I hope this helps, I also want everything out there but I just can’t afford it, Get the item you want best out off a list of 100 other items you want… Well good luck and don’t give up…

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Rex I wasnt trying to start anything either, just one different perspective, [;)][:D]

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$$$ must you be rich to run garden trains?

NO. It’s all about what you want to do and how much time you are willing to spend. 10K will get you a slammin’ railroad no doubt about it, or you could buy 3 Triumphs and a Norton (my personal choice). This topic has been covered many times on this forum, a quick search should yield a wealth of information for you to read. Bottom line is that you can get a small RR started for under $300 if you buy close out deals, start small and scratch build a lot.

YOU HAVE TO TEMPER YOUR WANTS WITH THE REALITY OF YOUR FINANCES. The point is to start- members of this forum did not get these huge collections and very nice RR’s overnight on one internet order. Start, that’s the key. Garden railroading. is a unique beast and cannot in anyway be compared to indoor scales. It’s apples to oranges, each is good in it’s own way, but a comparison does not do either justice.

18

Instead of using rail clamps, soldering a wire between each section. The cost is almost zero for the material. You can do sound for maybe $75 each engine using the Dallee sound system. Or better yet, set up a trailing battery car with sound and use the car with what ever engine your running that day. Must more cost effective and works great.

Yes the track is getting very expensive, so start out small and plan to add each year to the layout amortizing the cost over a longer period of time. Bachman sells a good product that is very reasonably priced. So your engine and rolling stock does not have to cost an arm and a leg going that route.

If you are a member of a club, used equipment and track can often be obtained at reasonable prices.

Good luck and stick with it.

http://community.webshots.com/user/mvgilger

19

Sorry about the job. Kodak layoff? Rochester, NY–home of the yellow box and pink slip. You also have my sympathies on the winters up there. I lived in Avon for 7 years, though I did make sure I enjoyed all 5 days of summer while I was there. If you haven’t yet, get in touch with the Genessee “G” Gauge society. http://www.trainweb.org/gggrs/. I’m sure you can get some pointers and construction help from that group–and at the very least, you’ll have a set of modules to run trains on. Mention my name, and get a 50% increase on your dues. [:)]

You don’t need rail clamps. Get some small stainless steel machine screws and a good drill bit. Drill diagonally through the rail joiner into the base of the rail, and screw the railjoiner onto the rail. Do this for each rail that’s going into the railjoiner on the outside of the rail (so not to interfere with flanges). That’ll give you a nice, tight fit for less than a fraction of the cost of a rail clamp.

The hobby is as expensive or as cheap as you wish it to be. I know quite a few people on very small, very fixed (if not receding) paychecks who have more fun in this hobby than I do. It’s all a matter of finding a way. Obviously if you’re on a fixed income, a fleet of $3K locomotives is probably not going to be realistic. But a handful of $100 locos may well be within reason. You don’t need much. I can only fit around 14 or 15 cars on my railroad, and it’s built for running one loco at a time. No multiple-unit diesel lashups pulling 100 car trains here. I’ve got an average “mass-suburbia” yard, and those trains simply don’t fit.

Good luck. We look forward to seeing photos of your progress.

Later,

K

20

I ended up buying a lot of brass rail clamps and end up putting in a few every month. I use LGB track and their stock rail joiners did not do me good. The plastic back up joiners that go under the track holding sections together were worthlless. I bought special pliers that tighten up rail joiners and that was a waste of money. What happened was shoddy work back in 2004 when my friend the out of work carpenter put up most of the wood base that my track is on. It’s just above the ground. The ground actually is mostly sand so every month I notice my Aristo FA-1/FB-1 combos slowing down and speeding up over certain sections of rail.They seem to be the worst offenders of the bunch. I then try to build up the wood supports under the wood base in those spots so as to get things level again. That works most often until the sinkage starts again. I then put in the rail clamps and its good to go again for a month or so.

Probably I’m better off using the clamps where I can as oppossed to jacking up the track base. Twice now with my PP planning I built up the section by my storage shed so high that I could not get the door of the shed over the track when I went to open it. Trying to work too fast beating the daylight saving time when it gets dark at 5:30 PM. I should have fired myself then.