Hi folks -
For several years now, as I sit at the kitchen table and look out into the backyard, I think about running a train from island to island across that footbridge. That’s as far as I’ve gotten, but I’m real close to taking my second step to get the train moving (pardon the pun!). My first step was starting this thread here.
Anyway, I have a ton of reading to do before I spend the first dollar on anything and hope to learn most of what I need to do from this forum. At this point I THINK I’d like the Aristocraft train: http://gallery.bcentral.com/Gallery/ProductDetails.aspx?GID=3725153&PID=1770884&page=1&sortOrder=0
running on nickel-silver track. The weather here in central Texas will pretty much allow me all year operation which helps me justify this adventure.
My plan is to build a dogbone layout with the large ovals in the two islands, and narrow down to cross the footbridge, embedding the track in it to simulate the prototypical grade crossing. It will be an elevated system, matching the height of the footbridge (about 12 inches), which will eliminate any grading problems.
So here are my initial questions:
Is the above Aristocraft train a piece o’ crap or is it up there with the LGB stuff?
Where do you buy your trains, track, and controls? I prefer to order on-line but refuse to pay MSRP.
In 3 rail O Gauge, MTH is the clear winner in smoke output and right up there in sounds and control. I presume there are clear winners in these and other categories in this scale and I’ll wait until I learn about them and I’m better educated overall before I make my first purchase.
Thanks everyone…remember when you were taking your “first step”?
Hi Jim
[#welcome]
I have a number of different brands of train all of which have there pros and cons.
before geting overly concerned about which train
I would sugest sorting out a theme for your line std or narrow gauge mainline short line
logger ect this will determin the sort of trains you want.
Two area s not to compromise on quality are your locomotives and track work.
Some like me say it is better to have a few good pieces while others say less quality and more of it.
the second is ok for freight and passanger cars as it is usualy easy to get good trucks under them.
But don’t compremise on locomotives and track
For the first set I would sugest going into your local hobby shop and having a look at the trains talk to the dealer see them run, does the set look right does it look like a tender is missing ect some large scale locomotives in sets look like a tender is missing.
Some small 4wh cars are quite inexpencive and the small locomotive to pull them is the same and reasonably good but this may not be what you want.
regards John
Thanks for the response John…pretty sure it will be mainline, std gauge. I’m not into switching, yard operations, etc. More of a hands off, just watching it roll along the route without stopping. That’s why the diesel passenger Aristocraft seems interesting. In fact, I’m leaning toward NO SWITCHES at all…maybe later, to add a siding to park the train in a weatherproof shelter. Eventually some structures if I remain interested.
Gramma bought our youngest son a starter LGB set about 15 years ago which includes a small steamer type loco and a couple of 4 wheel cars - I was intending on using that to test the trackage and control system (yet undecided). Tons of questions like which couplers, add on sound systems, aftermarket smoke systems, track sizes/brands, etc., but all that will eventually get sorted out.
I would love to hear the pros and cons of your equipment, though…
We certainly seem to agree on the quality versus the quantity thing! One loco and a few car consist is all I want…but they will have to be good stuff!
I think you will enjoy posting and learning here. I have been in this forum only a short time and have learned so much and met so many people from aroun dthe world. You have most definatley come to the right place with your questions.[#welcome][4:-)]
Hi Jim,
Welcome to the forum! Glad to have you here. Check out the other threads here regarding the questions you have. All of them have been covered in great detail and should help in your decision making. Nice yard you have there to build in. Enjoy the forum. Later eh…Brian.
Hi Jim
If std gauge is your thing take a good hard look at Aristocraft their couple of freight cars that I have, have a couple of features that I like.
Propper suspention for a start and metal wheels their plain track is good and is weatherproof.
I dont know about their locomotives as all of mine bar two are LGB the odd two is a Hartland Mack swicher a nice little runner rather suprising with the relatively inexpensive nature of the locomotive the other is a Bachmann ten wheeler curently being batterd into a larger scale loco.
I would sugest having a few swiches so you can change the route the train takes and a small yard to store trains during an operating session.
Me I like to play oops!! I mean operate trains but also sometimes just idle and watch them go by.
regards John
I have to agree that for mainline standard guage, Aristo Craft is good stuff.
Dont be too afraid of switches, aristo switches work good with aristo trains, i would suggest plan on at least one passing siding to allow two train operation.
Oooops! Now I’m not so sure I meant STD. GAUGE…since I am so new, I associate “Garden Scale” with the LGB stuff I see running in the stores at Christmas time. Anyway, that’s the gauge size I have in mind. I need to read up on the dimensions of the gauges so I don’t make a costly mistake down the line…
Its pretty easy , by “Standard Gauge” we mean the trains that in reality operate on 4’-8 1/2" gauge track, the big boys, Union Pacific, Santa Fe, CSX, those guys, the big deisels, big steam engines, streamline cars, etc. Aristo Craft, USA, are the best examples.
The other stuff like LGB and Bachmann represents narrow guage trains, Euro 1 meter guage for LGB european prototype stuff, and 3’-0" guage, mostly Colorado rail lines for Bachmann, like D&RGW.once you get familiar with who makes what its pretty easy to identify what you are looking for.
Soooo…if I have an Aristo or USA train and the correct track (std. gauge) for them, does that mean I can or cannot run the LGB stuff…? The battery powered, R/C approach seems to have merit at this point for what I want to do. Considering track maintenance, wiring, and that battery technology is constantly improving, it does present an interesting option.
Have any of you folks wi***hat you would have chosen this approach? I realize there are pros and cons to any system, but it does seem to offer a compelling argument…
Jim, You can run the LGB stuff as you say. As Vsmith said Aristo and USA look better on thier track due to prototypical tie spacing. LGB track looks more prototypical for a narrow gauge line. The actual spacing between rails is the same meaning run whatever on any track. Beware as I’ve been told and said above by Vsmith Aristo switches are fine for Aristo locos however LGB and bachman seem to work better on LGB switches.
Vsmith jump in anytime here did I get right on the switch thing in terms of explanation?
Yeah mate get into it; But here is what I would consider.
The best bit of advice I ever recieved in Garden railroading was “do it small at first then your mistakes and mind changes will be small”.“Less is more”
Well I ignored this as i thought I wasn’t going to make any mistakes or change my mind. But I did both of these things, even changed sites as i moved interstate, so just do it little to start. Your venue looks very interesting I’d love to have it.
To this end what about getting something going on one island first, then after you have learned a bit from experience, move on. Then get something going on your other island all the time you are going about these two separate activities, keep in mind your masterplan what you hope to end up with. Actually draw up a rough plan of what you hope to achieve in the overall layout. Kepp it in mind and refer back to it as you go along and I bet you change your mind about many details and probably a few major things as well.
As far as track is concerned I wouldn’t even consider anything else beside Aristo or LGB or something made out of a similar metalic brass combination. I think Aristo has more zinc and less copper than LGB which seems to me to corrode much less quickly, particularly here in the tropics. But of course nothing is free and in theory the LGB with more copper should be a better conductor of electricity.
I have an aristo set of points(switches) and have found nothing wrong with it but i use almost exclusively LGB and I use bigger curve ones, electrically operated. More expensive but worthwhile (I wasn’t going to have any switches either).
I like the idea of a dogsbone in fact I am about to start on my Area 3, which will be a folded dogsbone see page 25 “Garden Railroading” my bible. If you havent got this book get it before you do a thing; its a Kalmbach Book.
I am sold on LGB rolling stock and loco’s particularly if you have some curves, their patented bogey (
The guys who run our local model shop sell Bachmann and USA and always advise people that if you don’t want to mix the scales then have operating sessions that suit you at the time. If you are in narrow guage mode run your 2-8-0 and a short mixed train. In standard guage mode run a nice beefy SD40-2 with a rake of freight. Agree with everyone else, Aristo or LGB track is the best with metal wheeled stock, but I do have problems with my consolidation over the Aristo switches - time to get the file out I suspect. Don’t forget your power. If you go mains get the highest amperage you can, I was running my consolidation on Sunday (a hot day) with lighted stock and it kept tripping out the safety on the 5 amp supply.
Happy railroading,
Kim
[tup]
When it comes to Aristos R1 4 foot diameter switches, yes, derailments and stalls happen a lot, thats why i use LGB only, but if your going to go to the wider diameter turnouts, I cant comment. Aristo’s wide switches should be fine for Aristo/USA trains, I havent heard any complaints about them like with the R1 switches.
Jim, remember that the track for “standard guage” and “narrow guage” is the same track, 45mm guage. LGB and Aristo track are interchangeble, like Matt says, its just the tie size and spacing that look different.
Also if you are planning on a “standard guage” layout plan for the largest diameter curves you can use, no less than 6 foot diameter, 8 foot diameter is the most recommended now. this is due to the newest engines and cars are desinged around the 8 foot curves. LGB is the only mfr that still designed all its stuff to fit thru the R1 4 foot diameter curves.
See…I’ve already changed my mind and agree with iandor to start with a simple circle or oval in the right side island and learn from the inevitable mistakes I make…then expand as time and finances permit.
Let’s say I start with Aristo track, LGB F7A/B, USA Trains steel wheeled passenger set.
Will the LGB loco handle the Aristo std. ga. track?
Will the different scales look funny on the same train?
Will their couplers all work with each other?
I presume the LGB diesel is physically smaller than Aristo and USA version of the F7 series…
Like I said previously they all run on the same 45mm track, so they will all work together on the same track.
The LGB F7 is roughly the same scale as USA’s streamline cars, if anything the LGB F7 is probably slightly LARGER than the USA F7, so they should look perfectly fine together.
Lastly, NO, LGB aftermarket knuckle coulpers will not work with USA’s standard knuckle couplers. BUT LGB’s standard hook and loop couplers can be installed onto the USA cars. The hook and loop coupler is large scales only true universal coupler that will work any time anywhere. if you want to just run trains, with no switching, then go with the hook and loop.
Absolutely GREAT info…at least I know what pieces will allow me to get started…
Anyone want to step up and list the reason(s) why you did or did not choose the on-board battery vs. track power, and/or why you did or did not choose R/C over track signal control? Which is easier - converting battery-R/C to conventional track power /control or vice versa?
Thanks…and I really am getting closer to making my decision.
I have read all that everyone has had to say and I must remark that you have been given some godd advice and I wish i had of been so well advised when I first started out.
I am in the unique situation where my wife is also my accountant and allocates any monies I may need to buy new gear. The one constraint she puts on me is “don’t buy anything that is cost effective that doesn’t do anything”.
So by all means buy a cheap starter set but realise that IS what it IS and before you make a final selection; look at what you can do with it down the track. Once you have had a loco with SOUND anything else seems pretty pointless, so get sound to start or be sure you can get it modified later.
At a club meeting I purchased an LGB DR Mallet for US$1300 it was 2nd hand but as new absolutely mint, result of a divorce. It had smoke and about six on board functions such as bells whistles, steam valve, chugs in time with motion. Even you could hear the men stoking up the fire box, all digital, all true to life etc. Suddenly everything else I had was hardly worth having.
This loco has now had a couple of decoders put in it and it is a fully remorte controlled very sophisticated loco and you just wouldn’t be bothered withanything less.
So I would not even start with anything else besides a steam loco that can give you some worthwhile functions ,if you should wi***o really fly in this pasttime.
Ian is bang on with his advice on sound and there are some great systems out there now. The only thing you have to watch out for are neighbours. When my trains are running I don’t have any sound because I have 5 sets of neighbours sharing my back garden boundary and we are all out there on nice days. To be fair to them I don’t want to force them to listen to steam exhaust or diesel rumble and I don’t want to have to listen to their choice of music etc etc.
Cheers,
Kim
[tup]
Kimbrit,
Funny you should mention the neighbors. My neighbor on the one side commented once that he did not hear any trains running. “How come???” No complaints here. Who knows…maybe we’ll be cutting a hole in the fence and building a line in his yard! Later eh…Brian.
