Who needs engines? Years ago, MR did an article on modeling an logging railway incline. The cars are pulled up or let down the grade with a cable hooked to a special car. That approach would allow almost any grade, maybe even 50%.
Have fun
Like this
This a model of a local coal mine, the weight of the loaded car pulls the empty one up, they meet in the middle and pass each other.
It’s not my model, we had a train show recently, and was a huge hit.
Ken.
I seem to remember reading that a cable assist was used at the rock quarry on the defunct shortline I am loosley using as a prototype. The Inclines in Cincinnati that took cable car passengers up Mt. Adams and Price Hill also used a second car as a counter weight. I would try to model something like it but I don’t have the skills. Yet.
The SHAY MOUNTAIN RAILROAD and GENERIC PACIFIC (A Layout Plan in Words)
Space specifications: 3’ deep (or less) L-shape along 12’ and 16’ walls, with 4-5 foot lobe allowed at each end for turnback curves.
Main modeling focus: steep mountainous short-line, mining and/or logging, possibly Shay-operated.
FIRST: Suggestion for a mainline connection.
A place for the short line to connect is important for the “story” of the short line and its meaningful operation, and a trunk line loop (long distance major railroad) would allow a larger variety of equipment to run, and allow for easy continuous running when desired. Although the trunk line (let us call it the Generic Pacific) is secondary, it will require the greatest track clearances, curve radii etc. and should probably be laid out first.
Curve standards for the Generic Pacific: much mainline equipment requires larger radius curves than branch line logging equipment. 24” radius is often recommended as a minimum, 30” or even 36” is even better for the appearance of full-length passenger. (I assume in the era of Shay logging, you are NOT running 89’ piggyback flats!) One trick to save “turnback curve lobe sprawl”… Sharper curves show up much more on the gaps between cars seen on the front curve, the one that curves away from the aisle and the viewer, than on the back curve, where the sharp curvature makes the ends of cars closest to the view get closer together. Therefore for APPEARANCE, you might consider having the back half of the Generic Pacific turnback curves with a radius just large enough for dependable mainline operation, say 22” or 24”, while the front half of the turnback curves have a radius of 28” or 30”. If you allow 3” from track center to the front and back edge of layout, the “front half-back half” curve combination of 22” and 28” would allow a minimum end lobe depth of 56” (4 feet 8 inches) which is halfway between your target of 4 to 5 feet. Besides the appearance-space compr
leighant, thank you VERY much. Now I have something to use as a guide.
I certainly appreciate your thoughtful analysis. I know it took a while to type…at least it would have me. I think the “young or inexperienced guest operator” is me!!! I barely hung onto your explanation. I don’t know a LOT of the terms you’re using, but I want to learn…and I know you don’t have time to teach me. I have saved what you’ve written…and will anything else you write. It’s great advice. Now I just have to figure it all out!
[quote]
QUOTE: Originally posted by jacon12
Rob, these fellas have been helping me on a layout that sounds pretty much like what you’re thinking of doing. Mine consists of two 4x4 foot tables connected by a 2 foot wide ‘shelf’ running 12 feet and then another 8 feet at 90 degrees. I have a logging line that is a 4% grade, seen in this picture…
and I have no problem getting trains up it. It goes to an area that will be the logging camp and it will be where the yellow loco is parked in the lower picture…
and that is 6 inches high (from the base). The little ‘hill’ beside the loco will be a scenery break, another idea from one of the guys on this forum.
I agree with Expalacedog in that you’re eating up a lot of space for an incline that could be used for operational space… i.e. turnouts, business’, yards etc. But, I also think that IF done right and sceniked well it will look great. BUT… I’ve come to a halt with mine and I’m rethinking if I really want to do that or not. I’ll probably go ahead with it in the end. I’m in no hurry… 
I’ve been doing a lot of research on logging in the Appalachian Mountains, particularly in what is now the Great Smoky Mountain National Park from about 1900 to 1940 and believe me, 4% was a cakewalk for the Shays that were used. And as Zephyr said, over 12% wasn’t uncommon, running up narrow valleys beside rivers, crossing back and forth over the river on rickety bridges. At one point they even put up a 'swinging bridge, of all things. So it is possible and it would be prototypical but modeling the inclines, even with Woodland Scenic risers and inclines… well… theres more to it than running track on the flats. You have to think about how you’re going to do the hills and valleys that run beside the track also.
Personally, I think it is an interesting aspect of railroading. I’ve seen it don
As much as I do AND don’t want to, mine is probably going to end up with two larger tables at the loop ends than I started out with. I got my Spectrum Shay and the Digitrax Zephyr today. I put the decoder in the locomotive in about 30 minutes. This thing sounds so real it ain’t funny.
[quote]
QUOTE: Originally posted by oleirish
[quote]
QUOTE: Originally posted by jacon12
Rob, these fellas have been helping me on a layout that sounds pretty much like what you’re thinking of doing. Mine consists of two 4x4 foot tables connected by a 2 foot wide ‘shelf’ running 12 feet and then another 8 feet at 90 degrees. I have a logging line that is a 4% grade, seen in this picture…
and I have no problem getting trains up it. It goes to an area that will be the logging camp and it will be where the yellow loco is parked in the lower picture…
and that is 6 inches high (from the base). The little ‘hill’ beside the loco will be a scenery break, another idea from one of the guys on this forum.
I agree with Expalacedog in that you’re eating up a lot of space for an incline that could be used for operational space… i.e. turnouts, business’, yards etc. But, I also think that IF done right and sceniked well it will look great. BUT… I’ve come to a halt with mine and I’m rethinking if I really want to do that or not. I’ll probably go ahead with it in the end. I’m in no hurry…
I’ve been doing a lot of research on logging in the Appalachian Mountains, particularly in what is now the Great Smoky Mountain National Park from about 1900 to 1940 and believe me, 4% was a cakewalk for the Shays that were used. And as Zephyr said, over 12% wasn’t uncommon, running up narrow valleys beside rivers, crossing back and forth over the river on rickety bridges. At one point they even put up a 'swinging bridge, of all things. So it is possible and it would be prototypical but modeling the inclines, even with Woodland Scenic risers and inclines… well… theres more to it than running track on the flats. You have to think about how you’re going to do the hills and valleys that run beside the track also.
Personally, I thin
Rob, if you don’t mind my asking, where did you get your Shay and decoder? I’m looking for the same thing.
Jarrell
Kenneth, I’m following this with great interest also. Would you mind elaborating on this part?
“Schematic of the Generic Pacific: continuous oval with hidden staging on back half, interchange with Shay Mountain Railroad on front half.”
I don’t understand the ‘back half’ part.
Thanks,
Jarrell
I don’t understand any of it, but I’m tryin real hard. If it ain’t in picture form, I’m just a dumbass.
I got the decoder from here: http://www.acculites.com/SOUNDTRAXX_pp.html
REAL nice people. FAST as HELL shipping. As you can see, they want 116 bucks for the same decoder most want 149 for. I got the Zephyr from Ebay. Here’s the link to the seller I bought from: http://motors.search.ebay.com/_W0QQfgtpZ1QQfrppZ25QQsassZbrillianthobby
Brilliant Hobby is the business name. The man’s name is David Brilliant, and quite frankly, he is. He’s very nice and helpful. He also sold me the Zephyr for 149 bucks. I watch very closely who I do business with on Ebay. Look at his feedback. He has 943 comments, no neutrals, and one negative. You can reach him directly at 949 306 8627. Hope that helps.
jacon12 wrote “I don’t understand the ‘back half’ part.” in connection with
"Schematic of the Generic Pacific: continuous oval with hidden staging on back half, interchange with Shay Mountain Railroad on front half.
Imagine an oval of track on a long layout that is set against a wall, viewed and operated from the open middle of the room. When I say “the back half”, I refer to the half of the oval that is up against the wall and “back” away from the viewer. The “front half” refers to the part of the oval that is towards the front edge of the layout, near the aisle, viewer and operator.
It might half been confusing because we are talking about an L-shaped layout but I am just thinking of it as a long narrow layout that is bent somewhere close to the middle.
I am going to be posting more, probably tomorrow, about the steep mountain branch line that would fit inside and over the mainline “Generic Pacific” loop I described earlier.
ouch , that’s a lot less than what i’m paying for the one on order at my LHS . sometimes living in canada and supporting my LHS hurts . especially in the wallet
Well, I’m on a fixed income, so necessity dictates that I find the lowest prices I can or don’t do the hobby. There might have been cheaper prices out there for what I did, but I haven’t found them yet. Like you, I want to support my LHS, but they are a bunch of a$$holes. It’s a major though, so I don’t feel bad for not patronizing them. If they can’t hire good people, then to hell with them.
Ok, I understand now.
Thanks,
Jarrell
You guys be vary carefull with "hidden stageing "on the back half of the lay out,If you can’t reach it and have an de-railment???
JIM
Sounds like a perfect excuse to start building appropriately scaled skycrane helicopters to go in and lift them out. [:D]
I got the Shay off Ebay, too. I kinda got caught up in bidding and ended up paying 131 bucks for it. I really don’t feel bad though. I’ve seen some for less, but I’ve seen a lot for a bunch more. I also wanted the undecorated, which I got, and you don’t see them all the time on Ebay.
Having a derailment in a spot I can’t get to has been a concern that I am going to design out of my layout. Especially since my layout is going to be against the wall on two sides, I need to make sure I can reach the track all the way to the wall.