Interesting debate about the quality control - there was a company over here named Mainline Railways that had HO locos and cars made in China (by the same plant that now does the Bachmann range). Their approach to quality control was simple: Stock was sent over in large polystyrene trays. On arrival at the UK HQ it would be thoroughly checked and tested, then boxed and sent out to retailers. Defective items were either returned or sold at low prices through the factory shop (to people who would put up with doing a little remedial work in exchange for the fairly spectacular price cut). Doesn’t sound like a bad system to me, I think DOA Mainline locos were fairly rare.
My experience has been good with China-produced Lionel product. Actually better than pre-China stuff. I agree with most all of you that this Asian production is not going to change anytime soon as production of ANYTHING will go wherever production costs are cheapest given quality requirements. Of course, where American workers are going to get the $$ to BUY this overseas stuff in the future is going to be the real problem as fewer and fewer decent paying jobs are available to our people!
Europe is also alike america with manufacturing. The pure putting together things which are labour intensive is simply too expensive here. That’s not in the first place because the workers want huge wages, but mostly because the government takes a lot of money away from the workers with huge taxes, insurance costs etc. Also housing and energy costs a lot more here then in any other part of the world.
Also having a job is something “normal” to a lot of people living here, so if they get fired, they simply switch to another job, there are plenty of them as long as you are educated.
Designing and calculating the stuff is done in the “high educated countries” and the labourintensive putting it together is done somewhere else where labour is cheap and people work longer hours.
That’s something which is going on for years and years on a row here and the only factories staying here are the ones where everything can be made mechanically.
A factory like Lionel wouldn’t excist anymore if it didn’t move it’s production to a cheaper country. Simply because if a GP9 from Lionel would set you back for 400 dollars, and next to it on the shelf is the same sort of locomotive with a lot more features from brand X for $200, every one can guess that the Lionel GP wouldn’t sell.
It’s a pity when a tradition is given up, but by doing that the name and the brand survived (for now)…They simply didn’t have another choice if they wanted to stay competitive.
I have bought about 13 mth engines in the past 2 years and everyone has worked straight out of the box. I have had subsequent problems with one (SF E-6) smoke unit and that is it.
I don’t think Quality Control is limited to Lionel or other toy trains. Quality of MANY gizmos can be frustrating; from modern computers to computer-driven cars; the more hi-tech, the more can seem to go wrong.
In my mind, at least, I EXPECT just as many Q problems w/toy trains as with any other toy or appliance.
WHAT I DO expect is that when a part breaks down, that it will get repaired free of charge. I have had both Lionel and MTH stuff fail and rather than complain and get all bent out of shape, I have simply returned the itmes.
AND, every item that failed was repaired and returned (although it sometimes took a spell).
So, you won’t hear any grips from me. Toys ain’t perfect and neither are the people who make 'em; tho we’d all like them to be. [:D]
[2c] On the subject …
It bothers me to no end to have ANY of my memories destroyed through the advance of time that brings along with it - change. No one or nothing stays the same. Really. It would be nice IF only … but it just ain’t possible. LIONEL is a name that conurs up so many great thoughts in my aging head, but it is a name in reality. Long gone are the people who manufactured those wonderul trains I had as a kid in the 40’s and 50’s. Long gone are the people who insisted on quality and demanded excellence from the work force.
As I see it, the quality issue is one that we Americans should be able to insist upon and the company should demand. It’s really that simple to me. Don’t buy the stuff they are marketing - period - unless and until the quality improves. It doesn’t matter where it is manufactured, other than to those of us with that thing called “National Pride” (and believe me, I’d much prefer the “Made in U.S.A.” stamp any time!). The trains could be manufactured in Zimbobbatutu, but if the quality isn’t there, then the people pullling the strings here in the U.S. at the corporate level should simply rescind the contract - not import the stuff and find someone who will adhere to the STANDARDS. Wonder if that latter term has any meaning to the “string pullers” at LIONEL and other companies who are heavily into overseas labor [?]
Sorry, if my [soapbox] sounds repetitive, but to my way of thinking, shoes made in Malaysia are something out of my control - purchasing them if they don’t measure up in QUALITY is something I can control through my spending habits. Same goes for model and toy trains.
It really seems that simple.
G’day!
Ogage(sic),
When Wellspring took over their original intent was exactly the opposite of what you state. Over and over through a period of at least the first three years they repeated their mantra of US production, open frame AC motors and MagneTraction. This all while they continued their pursuit of the Odyssey Motor.
While they were so busy doing this, MTH and K-Line were eating LIONEL’s lunch with CAN motors, new tooling, lower prices and off-shore production.
Jon [8D]
Kooljock – You are darn right about the early Wellspring years. They were putting American flags on the pages of the catalog for a while and really pushing the “Made in America” line. As MTH’s sales grew and their’s dropped, they finally had to eat their words and move it all overseas. It was a matter of survival by then! You know, I really would have liked it if they had continued to make the old fashioned products (Postwar-type stuff) here in the US, though. It would have given the customer a choice…
How many of you would PAY the extra $$$ a loco made in the USA would cost.
I,too am frustrated when all I see on the boxes my HO trains come in is Made in China,but the prices are already too high. They would be astronomical on a product made in the USA.I hate to say this,but unfortunately this is how things are[:(!][:(].
Whenever I purchase a large doller item like a locomotive, I test run it first, before money changes hands, if it fails, then I dont buy it, plain and simple! I had to go thru 4 D&H RS11’s before we found one that would operate correcly on both conventional throttle and TMCC. I prefer USA built stuff, but it was bound to happen sooner or later that the Lionel line would get moved offshore. But between all my buddies, our USA stuff has been more dependable than the overseas stuff. My pair of NYC 2380 GP9’s have tons of miles on them with only some oiling once and a great while. My D&H RS11 died and was returned for a refund (spent on the second 2380 GP9) I dont think the offshore is the total reason, its more the fact that modern toy trains are as compicated as a home computer. With my Lionel repair training, if I remember correctly the TMCC/RS setup in a 2380 GP9 is equilivant to a 386 home pc. That was only RS2 and early TMCC, now we are on what RS4-5? Dont get me wrong, I love the newer scale looking trains, but nothing makes me smile more then the sight and smell of ozone from my 1949 1655 steamer that was my dad’s as a kid. All that matters is buy what makes you happy, be it prewar, postwar, MPC, LTI or the newest thing from whoever…Just have fun! Cheers Mike
Don’t feel alone with your problem about Lionel Trains. I have had serious trouble with
Lionel switches # 6-23011, Lionel will not acknowledge a problem with the switch so I went over to GarGraves track. Also I bought a new Lionel GP-7 about five years ago and it would barely pull four Lionel quad hopppers # 6436 Lehigh Valley hoppers UNLOADED!! Since then I sold the locomotive on Ebay, and am trying to sell the Lionel switches.
I would recomend K-Line or Williams as good quality products, sure they come from China also but what can you do?
Lee.