Ive now got to the stage where i need to make a large rock face. Ive many WS rock molds but im afraid if i use them, it’l end up looking like ‘crazy paving’.
I see alot of great looking rock faces. I tried to follow the Joe Fugates method but it ended up looking like what it was, a load of scratched up plaster!
Im not to bad with small rocks with the molds as the picture below will hopefully show but im stuck when it comes to making a big rock face myself. If anyone can show me an idiots guide, i would be very gratefull. Ive also got some pictures off the net of how i’d like it to look.
This is what i have now but using molds is easy isnt it!
Below is where i need a big rock face.
If you have any pics you could show me, that would be great, thanks guys.
I don’t think yours look too bad I think it is the coloring. I make rocks by fanfolding aluminum foil in one direction then the other. it leaves lots of crinkly surfaces. then I spray dark brown on the top surfaces since that is where the dirt would collect. Light gray or brown form the sides and black up from bottom. I would suggest you add a black wash that will soak into the crevices and highlight them. Then you could add a very little ground foam sprinkled from the top to simulate where vegetation might try to grow. I think you are being over critical in some respects. Your first picture rocks don’t look that bad to my eyes.
I gave up on plaster for carved rocks. I still use some molds but for large areas I like foam. I carve some and use artist acrylics for color. For a more weathered look I add ground goop first. I also like this because I can do the work on the bench and then just set mountain in place. I do most of the carving with a serrated steak knife, but the Hoodoos needed a hotwire tool. Don’t worry about errors. Most can be fixed with gouging out a little more. Some are fixed by glueing in a small block of foam and starting over. Here are a couple of pics. There are many more in my sig.
One problem with the WS rock molds is they made rock lumps and what you are looking for is a rock face. Take a look at Bragdon’s rock molds.
Another el cheapo method is to take heavy aluminum foil and crumple it. I like to crumple it along the length, not in a ball, then sorta straighten it out. Cover it with a thick plaster, like heavy batter, thin enough to pour and spread, but thick enough that when you lift the foil the plaster stays on the foil. Then slap the foil on the rock face. You want the foil to be uneven enough to look like rock outcroppings. When the plaster starts to get firm and warm, then peel off the foil. DO NOT let the plaster harden all the way or you will permanently attach the foil to the mountain. Don’t ask how I know. Then you can do any carving or clean up work. If there are bubles in the plaster you can chip around them to make them blend into the rock. Its quick and cheap. since its relatively thin, you can add a layer to build up or cover up the first coat. By brushing the surface with a cheap 2 in paintbrush you can take some of the sheen off and put some sandstone/limestone texture on the rocks. You can also put some dry plaster in a sock or stocking and “dust” the damp plaster face to put a grittier texture on it.
Hi Gary: These rocks were all made with WS molds and Hydra-cal. IMHO, you could use the same rocks you posted, which I think look pretty darn good, and fit them together like a jig saw puzzle to cover the area in the second photo.
Thanks for your pics Arthill, great as usual. Your pic above is the effect i need. My layout design makes it difficult to use foam though unfortunately, as under that hill/mountain theres track, ie, its all hollow. Ive thought about stacking some blue insulation foam on top of what i have and then carving, but im not sure if this would be to much of a nightmare or not!?
In your pic in this post, is that simply carved and then painted with maybe a small covering of groud goop?? Its certainly very effective and convincing.
This maybe the easiest option for me at the moment, however, if i make a hash of it, it will be a big clean up operation but i could start over on top if need be. Thanks for the idea Dave.
That also looks realy good! Are these WS molds also?? One problem i noted from a personal view point when using my casting plaster to ‘blend’ various plaster rocks in this fashion was that the plaster used to ‘glue’ one rock to another, didnt take color washes the same as the rock itself and showed up. However, these pictures are all definately helping me understand that it realy isnt that hard, i appreciate it.
Aw, just do it. What have you got to lose? Hydrocal is cheap.
Seriously, you’ve already demonstrated that you can paint rocks and do realistic scenery. That’s the hard part. The rest is merely assembly. The trick is to disguise things so that the viewer doesn’t realize you’ve used the same casting more than once, which you can do by flipping them upside down or even sideways, and by breaking them down into smaller pieces so large recognizeable features aren’t repeated. Don’t be afraid to trim the castings so that they fit snugly together. I use a Dremel to fit rock wall castings together, or I carve them with a hobby knife to fine-tune the edges.
Take a look at Bragdon Enterprise’s rock molds at http://www.bragdonent.com/. These are first-class molds, and they are considerably larger than the WS ones. A number of the Bragdon molds would fill your whole area with a single casting.
By the way, you can shape a hydrocal casting. For this one, I waited about 10-12 minutes after I poured the hydrocal, and then bent the mold with the hydrocal in it around a form. It set up hard in this shape.
Gary, I have had great luck with the foam board. I found some good board cheap by buying damaged foam board at Home Depot, if you have them on your side of the pond.
Foam is easy to work with, hack out a out line. (I use a bread knife) Then sand with a sanding block, I use 36 grit paper and then pick at it with a small knife and finger nails. When you are happy with it, paint. You can either use latex caulk or hot glue to bond the sheet together, I use both. Hot glue sets up in 5 minutes or less so I can crave, caulk is to be safe. I can lift off all of my foam work so I need it to be strong. From what I have seen you need no tips on painting.
On the lines between the sheets of foam, for my cliffs I want them. But, if you don’t want the lines I use latex chalk after they are shaped.
First hills I did in foam I used drywall compound over the foam. This time around I painted straight over the foam and have found the dry compound is a wasted step.
I have never worked with plaster, but if you know how to cut openings for tunnels then just do the same for the rock out crop. Use plaster or caulk to fill any seams that may show.
There are some great videos on You Tube about cutting and painting foam mountains.
Sorry guys for the same pictures again but they are all I have for now.
Good advice Ken. The biggest problem with foam is being too careful. I had some cub scouts over, 9 years old, they each had 30 minutes to do a small diorama. They wildest ones had the best scenery. The careful ones needed some encouragement to dig bigger holes. Theyt all got good scenery. Better than my first attempt.
The mess cleans up with a shop vac very nicely. MUCH easier than Plaster.
I used hand-sized molds for making cliffs. I have four of them that I rotate through at different places, and turned up-side-down and sideways at different times. (Sorry, no pictures.) Anyway, whatever molds you use, start from the top and work your way across in a row, then step down to the next row, over lapping the mold above it slightly. This makes the face look like steps. If you start at the bottom, then the second row starts out in space as an overhang if you overlap it. If you don’t overlap the castings slightly, you have space to fill and try to match up. One overhang is OK, but you don’t want the whole cliff face to be a bunch of over hanging slabs. I cast a face wet. That is, pour the mold, wait for it to set up so it doesn’t spill out, then apply and hold it to the form until it hardens. To speed setting of the plaster, I mix table salt in the water used to mix the plaster with.
Art, you gave me the best advise I received so far on carving foam. What it pretty much boiled down to was hack and whack and don’t worry because it is easy to fix if you don’t like it.
I stared at the pink Mouton for all most a year before I had at it? I was afraid I would mess it up? Guess what, one night I was sick at staring at pink and went on the attack. Best thing I have done so far was not to worry about how it looked.
I went from this.
To what I posted in about 20 hours. Last up dated PIC does not show the latest work. I now feel like a real Moder Rail Roader and even no where near the level you or other people here on the site are, still would not be ashamed to have you over either.
Hack and Whack? That is a great discription Ken. A little study of geology also helps. My next cliff will be where the old CB&Q goes through St Paul. There is a 20 foot layer of limestone on top of 50 feet of sandstone. The lines and cuts are similar but very subtley different. It will be spring at best before I get to it, but everytime I drive by I look at the strata. It is wonderful.
You can always cheat, [:-^] although they are pricey. I have the Santa Fe, I didn’t realize that they come pre-colored/ weathered, it looks really great.
But viewing the smaller rocks that you have already done, I think they look great. Take the plunge and go for it. Make a bunch out of the WS molds, place them on the layout, when your satisfied, glue them into place, cover the seams between the rocks with some Joe Fugate plaster or WS plaster.
“A little study of geology also helps” Art I have done that to a point, sure not ready to take a test but a long time ago I posted this is what I am after.
It is the theme not the proto type. When done the town of Alton will be on top of the mountain.
Sorry if this has turned into a high jacking. Gary just have at it and let us know what you are going to do.
I’m a member of the wet plaster casting camp for rock facings. All of the rock face in this photo was applied while the plaster was wet using latex molds.
While many people like using layers of foam, the main thing I don’t like about using foam is that the layers of foam telegraph through the finished product…making it look like stacked foam. I don’t know if that is a result of using a thick adhesive to glue the layers of foam together or just the nature of the beast.
Something I learned almost too late…when creating the areas that will hold your plaster casting, be sure to keep them far enough away from your roadbed to allow for the thickness of the plaster. I had to reshape some of my cardboard lattice before applying the plaster because the rocks would have trespassed onto the right of way.
I’m in the midst of putting a large rock-face on a section of my layout that is about 6’ long by 2-3" high, representing high Sierra granite. Because of the large space involved, I’m using several techniques–combining Cripplebush rubber rocks with WS and Bragdon castings. However, I’m not using hydrocal–which sets up FAR too quickly to work with in dry California heat, I’m instead using Sculpatmold, mixed 50/50, which sets up much slower and still results in a nice ‘rocky’ finish that works well in the molds. It’s right between hydrocal and casting plaster in weight, and is workable for about two hours after it ‘sets’ on the rock-face.
This is one portion using both the Cripplebush rubber rocks and Sculptamold from rock castings. It’s about 1/3 of the total area I’m working.
Hi Gary: I’m not sure what part of the country you’re modeling, but here in Pa. here’s a rather common rock cut. I don’t know if this is what your’re looking for, just another method. As to the problem with the terrain surrounding your plaster rocks, I’ve found that using Structolite/Gypsolite glue the rock castings, takes colors and alcohol/ink washes the same as hydrocal. These are broken ceiling tiles.
