hello all, It’s Donhvac again. Once again thanks to all who responded to my first post, I’m still researching for my first layout. i’ve read alot of the posts that are on this forum I also have gone out and bought (and read) Basic Model Railroading Geting Started In The Hobby, 48 Top Notch Track Plans, and The Complete Atlas Wiring Book. I also downloaded atlas right track software and have been playing around with some different track designs. I’ve decided to start out on4x8 platform with ho scale. Here’s what i’m having a difficult time with. I haven’t actually seen model railroad layouts except in this last issue of model railroader magazine I just picked up. This Track Plans book helps but I’m not the type to copy something, I want to design It so I can call It my own. Does anyone out there have pictures of their layouts or websites of their layouts so I can see how all these puzzle pieces fit together. even pictures of electronics or wiring would be cool. Are there any sites on the web that showcase model railroad layouts.
I started with the hobby with a 4 x 8 and I think it was if not a mistake, at least there were other options I should have explored. The problem deals with space. To operate a 4x8 layout, you need access all the way around the layout. So in terms of space a 4x8 takes up 9 x 13.
When you look at it that way, you can build a much better layout in a 9x13 space than a 4x8 table. Just something to consider. With a U shaped layout for example, you can reach everything from one location, where as with the 4x8, I am constantly having to walk around the layout to uncouple cars, the occational derail, etc.
Here’s a link that will keeep you busy for a couple weeks.
spacemouse,
do you you mean 9’ deep and 13’ wide? how would you reach the back of that setup. i’m trying to visualize it but having a hard time. thank you for the link too by the way
Like Spacemouse I started with a 4 x 8 and it was always a challenge to reach some of the areas. I now have a around the room 24 in across and in a large rectangle. I have to duck under it but I have lots of track now and I can easily reach every part of the layout. Just something to consider.
Terry
My first two layouts were 4X8, people have already told you of the challenges. I takes a little more imagination to build around the room but it’s one of the better ways to have a railroad. I currently have a small room 9X9 In my tool shed behind my house, I added a second floor to. It has worked quite well for me and leaves room for operation. Most of the bench work is under 24 in wide so everything is easy to reach. It left me with a good long outside main line and room on the inside for curves tunnels and industries. i like mostly to watch my trains run while I make repairs and up grades to my other equipment. I kept the wireing simple by using Atlas controllers and a couple of powerpacks. With no more than 24in of in with it was a lot eaiser to fill in the scenery( a deffinet plus). For your first your going to want more than you may be able to accomplish or finish so, this makes it a little less challenging. Just some thoughts you may consider. Hope I’ve helped. Joey
What I said/meant was the layout requires that much space. IN the same 13 x 9 space you could have a U or C or G or M shaped layout in which the tables line the walls and are less than 30" deep. This gives a lot of running options. A 4x8 gives you basic loops to run and eventually, this becomes boring. Running a shelf layout, you can create various switching locations, create realistic operations and have a larger variety of things to do.
Here’s my 4.5 x 8 layout. The lower level is a western town. The upper level is a mountain and a mine.
Ok, Thanks space mouse i understand now. my only other question to that would be that isn’t difficult to get a decent amount of trackwork into 30" of space. Sorry If these questions are not the brightest but I am totally new to this and am very greatful to have some where and people to turn to for help because i must say i just visited my closest hobbystore this week and those peopple have no time or patience to help ya. i was dissapointed
Here is a layout by Paul Templar that is currently under construction. As you can see, the space is 9.5 by 6.5. The table width is 30".
http://www.all-model-railroading.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,2246.0.html
Paul Templar is perhaps the most famous logging layout guy out there. Here is a link to his site. Some truly inspirational work.
http://www.cooncreek-and-tumbleweed-springs.co.uk/
I showed you the above layout only as an example of lots of track in a small space, but lots of track isn’t nessicarily desirable. The real challenge is to make a track in which every piece has a reason for being–just like the real railroads.
The trick is to shift your consciousness from a “roundy-round I want to run trains” attitude to a “I want to run a railroad” attitiude. This shift consitutes the difference between a toy train and a model railroad. Certainly you can have elements of both. Certainly either kind can be built on a 4x8 or a small round the room layout.
The shift for me was the book, Track Planning for Realistic Operation by John Armstrong. This can be a difficult book to understand and it is very dense. It starts oout by explaining how a real railroad runs and then takes you through planning processes so that you can design a railroad in your space. IF you follow his lead, what you end up with is a model railroad that will keep you interested far longer than a simple looped-de-loop will. I had to read it 4 times before I think I got it.
I have a room that 10 1/2 ’ X 25’, of which the layout will use 10 1/2’ X 18’. I am going to do the unorthodox thing of using 4X8 around the walls modified slightly on one wall. I am also going to place the tables on furnitre heavy duty rollers, which will allow me the move the tables away from the walls if I need to get behind the layout. I will have lift out sections at one end of the narrow width of the room to allow me the space to pull the layout away from either long wall. The walk space down the middle will be 2 1/2’. As I am 5’ 10" and 180 lbs, I have no trouble whatsoever operating and working in this isleway. I want as much table space for layout as possible, and I feel I can make this work.
***,
Are you advising him to go ahead with a 4x8 layout as opposed to an around the room?
My website has lots of diagrams, photos, and discussion about my HO layout.
However, it is a large permanent HO layout, and I’ve been in the hobby almost 40 years, so there may be a place or two where I’ve neglected to explain things like I should for beginners.
But I invite you to click on the link in my signature and look around. If you run across something that I don’t explain very well, just let me know and I’ll try to explain it better for you either with posts on here or by upgrading the web site.
Chip
Is this what we have all been waiting for? [tup]
I don’t think so. This was my first attempt. I have a larger project in the works.
I had two 4x8’s because that is what fit in the rooms. I now have 2 4x8’s connected in between with an around the wall approach. This gives the illusion of distance with the width to do circles and loops. The availible space is the real deciding factor. If you want a continuous loop. you will need a minimum of 36"(18" radius with no room at the edges). Contrinuos run is important to me and the grand kids, so some variation of a 4 x something was necesary.
If I may add what liitle I can, it seems to me that with a smaller space, the limitations of available resources constrain the footprint of the track to a smaller and smaller number of plans that make sense. I would agree if someone were to say, well there are infinite numbers of ways to lay tracks in a given area…and I wouldn’t be able to argue. My point, though, is that it quickly becomes a chore greater than what most new people can, and should, stand to come up with what you termed your own design.
Another way, a shorter way, of saying that is: it’s been done. If you would like to have some longevity in the hobby, then I would suggest, and hope that others will agree, if partly, that you should latch onto a really good first 4X8 or similar SPACE, layout that has stood the test, build it, get some needed experience, and THEN build the larger one that will be more conducive to creativity and originality.
I won’t say that I am typical, but I wanted to have an original version, and a substantial one. Well, I sure got it! But, ask me now if I would have been better off doing as I suggested, and holding off on the dream layout until I knew what I was doing.
Chip is still in the throes of this process, but he is a much wiser and better informed layout designer and builder than he was just one year ago. Pay attention to him, and heed the words of the other experienced gentlemen, too. Initially, less is more, and you need to go slow to go fast…and far.
My [2c]…or 1.6 Canadian.
SpaceMouse is right! (I really said that?
A 4’ X 8’ really confine’s one’s imagination to seeing how much track can fit on a piece of ply. It also restrict’s curveture and the equipment one can operate reliably.
It also takes up more room than 4’ X 8’ since one has to walk around it to operate - like a pool table. Chip suggest’s 9’ X 13’ . I say 10’ X 16’ would be minimum for 2 people to sqeeze by each other. Doorway’s are 3’ wide.
But SHOVE IT against a wall (Corner is even better) and we can use the same 4X8 floor space to better advantage , and all we need to do is limit the width to 36’’ to reach thing’s. Currves can also be increased to 28"r - 34"r with 2’ access holes; and by deigning the layout into Chip’s 9’X13’square (my 10’X16’) with YOU operating from the center.
BEST part is same amount of floor space used with Choice of 'duck-under or 'lift bridge, plus everything is suitable for single person or multiple guest operation.
My layout used 3’ with on one side for my #1 yard and 1.5’ on the other - perfect for single or dual track main with trackside industries, keeping thing’s operationally interesting.
OR - there is the challenge of desigining a 4X4 that take up 3X more room, and go’s round - and round, and round. Zzzzzzzzz.
The other problem with 4x8 is that it is hard to use the middle in an efficient way, so not only do you need space to get around it, but you have a bunch of poorly utilized (and I don’t just mean for track, but scenically as well) space in the middle.
[#ditto][#ditto][#ditto][#ditto] I have an 8’x16’ layout.
ICMR
Happy Railroading.[swg][swg]
Spacemouse nice pics. I have had many layouts over the years. The one i have is the best one i have worked on.
So pics of it are at http://ztrainman.tripod.com/