I’m building a model railroad for my son atop a 5’ x 9’ ping-pong table. It consists of two concentric loops connected by a double-crossover. The outer loop is on an incline built from Woodland Scenics’s two-percent incline set.
I tested the track with my son’s MTH SD70-M2 locomotive, two Exact Rail waffle-style boxcars, a depressed-center flatcar, and a caboose before letting my son have a go at it. In my testing I had to sand down a lump out of some cork roadbed, but other than that it worked well.
Last night was my son’s first time operating his new track, which is only at the track-testing stage. Once this stage is ironed out, I’ll move on to scenery.
Being the idiot I am, I also put my son’s Athearn Genesis-series tankers on his train, and those derailed on every single lap around the track at the same place–in a curve where .060" superelevation ends. What must I do to enable smooth operation through this section of track?
I noticed that the trucks on the other cars have some flex in them–well, maybe not the trucks themselves, just the joints at which their connected to the cars. The tanker cars have zero flex. Maybe I have to tweak the track, maybe I need to loosen the screws in the tanker cars’ trucks to enable them to be a little flexible, maybe both, or maybe I need to hire someone to finish this for me.
Are there any tips you might have that’ll help me get these tanker cars through this section of track smoothly? I hate to keep asking for advice from people who’ve been there and done that. If any of you have any Photoshop or digital imaging questions, please ask me and I’ll do my best to help you.
The layout is in my mother’s basement, and I won’t have a chance to work on the layout until tomorrow
DO you go from .060 superelevtation to nothing, just like that? That’s over a 5 scale inch drop. You should transition from the max superelevation down to flat over a distance, not just drop all at once. Typically this would happen in the tranistion portion of the curve but it doesn’t look like you built transition curves in there, so drop it back starting on either side of the mid point of the curve. .060 is a little high anyway, you can get plenty of effect with .030, and physics doesn;t scale so the actual effect is minimal at best. If you do need to use .060 at the middle, then the one on either side of it should be .050, then down to .040, then .030, .020, .010, and finally flat.
Trying to get that all in on one 90 degree 22 or 18" radius curve is going ot be just as bad as abruptly going from flat to .060, hence .030 as the max in the middle is probably better for reliable operation
––.010–.020–.030–.020–.010––
the ‘lean’ will be noticeable yet it should operate much more reliably.
Yes and no. I don’t believe the cork is perfectly level, so when it goes from .06, it might more realistically be going from .06 to .1 or .2. I have only .2, .4, .6, and .8 styrene strips but will get more if you believe that’ll solve my problem.
I’ll try to implement your solution–or one very close to it–tomorrow.
Because the physics is so different from the real thing, super-elevation is pretty much only cosmetic on a model railroad. As Randy noted, less will still look good and smooth transitions are key. Easing off one of the trucks on the problem cars to give you sort of a “3-point suspension” may also help, as others noted.
I see you also have an s-curve when crossing from the inner loop to the outer loop (and vice-versa) – terminating the super-elevation on the inner loop well before the crossover may help with the reliability of that move if it proves problematic with longer cars. Best of luck.
It sounds like it ‘could be’ a weight problem which causes what is known as stringlining. If the end car is fairly hefty, and those between it and the engine are being towed around a curve, and if the inner rail is very low due to superelevation, it may be that the 'tween cars are being horsed up and in toward the radius of the curve so that they form a straighter line between locomotive and hefty car.
Or, the couplers can’t swing enough for the curve, and the light cars are still horsed up and over the inner rail.
I’m in the “check the cars suspension” camp. Check to make certain the cars trucks pivot freely. Then make certain that one of them can wobble side to side, and forward and back just a tiny bit. This is called a tricycle or three way suspension. It allows the car a little yaw, pitch, and roll to follow minor discrepancies in the track.
I’ve noticed Walther’s heavy weight passenger cars always have the trucks on too tight, so I am guessing that could be a Genesis tank problem as well.
Just curious, how old is your son? From the story I gather rather young. I keep my Genesis & Exact rail stuff off the layout except for photosessions. All the heavy handed people that come to operating sessions have a tendency to break off or bend all the fine detail on those expensive cars.
I would have to agree that this is likely a car problem as it is only the tankers having the issue. On one car, back the truck screw out until the truck swivels back and forth freely. The other truck must swivel but also rock up and down a little as well, this creates (as others have mentioned) a 3-point suspension. Be sure that the first truck just swivels, otherwise you can introduce a wobble when it runs down the track, something you don’t want.
Randy’s suggestions are also valid. A simple tool I use is an 8" long straight piece of wood and run it along each rail through the whole elevation, get your eyeball down to the rail at the middle of the piece of wood and observe that the gap is consistent as you move the wood block, (inbetween the vertical transitions). If the space widens, that is a place where the track needs to be shimmed. You can use just about anything for shims, plastic, card board (backs of paper pads), index cards, etc.
Rule of thumb: All transitions from left to right and vise versa and vertical transitions should be smooth and gradual, no vertical or horizontal kinks.
Max turned four in August, and, yes, sir, most of the fine detail stuff is already broken off. Shoot, I have to fess up to mangling a couple of pieces myself–one of those Genesis tankers just this morning during testing.
It’s turned out not to be a bad thing that I put off building this layout for about eighteen months. Max is starting to grasp the idea that there are some of his toys that can take rough treatment and some that can’t.
(And what’s surprised me about this whole model railroading thing is that I sort of enjoy building the layout. I can’t imagine that I’ll ever be one to watch trains run for longer than about ten minutes, but I’m quite hungry to get to work on the scenery. I’m a computer guy and love the Undo command that hands-on creative endeavors lack.)
My mother’s basement floor is unfinished, which means it’s smooth concrete. After I finish scenery I’m going to get my father-in-law to help me build something that’ll keep those trains on the layout in the event of a derailment.
I don’t know why, but the prices my local train store, TrainMaster Models, here in Buford, Georgia, charges for repairs, are unfairly low to them. US$5 and US$3 have been the charges for various pieces to be repaired. It’s a big train store with lots of overhead, so I can’t figure out why their service prices are so low. Currently I have a sack of Thomas & Friend HO locos and three pieces of rolling stock to carry in.
Okay. I don’t know how far away you are, but if you aren’t too far away, you might drop by and take a look. My mother’s house is located on Sardis Church Road, which intersects with Hamilton Mill Road, outside the city limits of Buford (one exit north of the Mall of Georgia on I-85).
I have the derailing section fixed at the moment, but I’m sure I’m going to run into more as I superelevate outside loop’s curves. They look slightly subelevated to me.
Here’s a quick video I made with my iPhone this morning:
I believe I may have solved my problem, at least temporarily, by removing superelevation in one place, adding it in another, and loosening the trucks on the tankers.
I’ll remember the concept of stringlining. I can visualize how that’d work, and, due to your post, I’ll keep that in mind as I finish testing the track.
If you knew how much you’ve been on my mind lately, you’d probably file for a protective order.
That whole situation about your father’s leaving you your house and your difficulty in keeping it, has been on my mind. My father died in '98, and, long story short, left us a few pieces of valuable commercial property. I have a heck of a time paying the annual property taxes, so I just contacted my realtor to see about selling a parcel or two so we can have money to pay taxes on the remaining parcels in future years without having to tap into our personal incomes.
And the second reason you’ve been on my mind is your skill in building layouts.
Another reason you’ve been on my mind is my perception of you in general. You’re fit, adventurous, organized, careful, deliberate, and a family man. I need to get into shape so I can be around to dance at my son’s wedding.
Well, my son likes running trains as fast as they’ll go, so I thought by superelevating the curves, I’d stand a better chance of preventing derailments. But if it’s only cosmetic, I can definitely leave the track as is. The curves on the outer loop look subelevated to me, but Max’s MTH SD70M-2 has looked solid while traversing those curves at full speed.
I had planned to go with one of two layouts that you designed, but when the feeling hit me either put some track down or backpedal, I went with what I felt like I’d be more successful in building. Now I regret not using your layouts because I’m going to end up with a lot of money in this first one, money that could have been spent on something more interesting. But if my son’s interest in running trains holds up (it’s been at redline since he was about sixteen or eighteen months old, and he’s fifty months old now), our next layout will be more adventurous. We have nearly all of my mother’s 2500-square-foot basement to use.
Here are filenames that cause me to remember you often:
Watching the video I noticed what could have been another contributing factor. At second #4 there is a joint between two pieces of track that come into view that is missing about 10 ties. I can see that the rails squeeze together slightly at that point, meaning the gauge is probably a bit tight there. if the trucks were squeezed anyway, then hit the off camber place you added elevation I can easily see how that would cause a derailment. Then add tight suspension. Funny how it all works together. But mainly I would get some new ties into that gap. If you don’t have a track gauge it is well worth the investment.
I agree 100%. I immediately noticed that the joint Texas Zepher noted above didn’t “look” right. From my (old and failing, lol) eyes, the joint in that curve looks tighter than the curves themselves, almost to the point of kinking.
Believe it or not, operation is now smooth across that section of track.
I would like to make it as smooth as it can possibly be, though, which means it is time to put back the ties I stripped while soldering the track. But how do I install those ties in a manner in which they’ll hold the rails? I’ve seen YouTube videos showing just sliding the ties back under the rail and gluing them on, but I’d prefer to make the rails fit exactly as they’re supposed to. I do have an NMRA HO gauge.
Keep in mind I’m working my way up to being a beginner, so the above question may not be the right one I need to be asking, and it may not be expressed very well.
Thanks for your replies. Max’s railroad is coming along.
It’s too late for you to do what I do. I don’t remove ties, I cut the spacers between the ties under the rails and just slide them back. After making my joints I can just slide them back to their original positions.
