There’s the rub. Although you can get pretty good decoders for $12-14 in bulk, in HO you gotta go sound and that is $70+. Over $100 if you want the cool stuff.
I’d add Atlas to the list of top quality products. The Atlas Trainman line may fill the bill for good & cheap rolling stock. Atlas has a good selection of diesels to choose from. Your choice if you want DCC or not. You can decide if you want the smaller Code 55 flextrack or the new Code 65 TruTrack or the old reliable Code 80 track. Kato Unitrak is excellent but can be expensive. You should check with Toy Train Heaven in PA for prices.
Athearn has produced some excellent Big Boy & Challenger steamers.
when i get around to actuelly building the layout il be useing flex track on some sort of roadbed. Not shure what code to use tho hear that code 100 is durable but id rather have realisim over durability. The place i’ve been doing all my looking for equipment is http://www.wholesaletrains.com/
they have really good prices on almost everything probubly the best online hobbyshop i have found so far.
At the risk of being labeled a heretic, has anyone else considered doing both? For the past 15 years I have wrestled with this same problem, and in that time have accumulated a large amount of N and HO equipment, structures, and track. I like the larger size and selection afforded by HO, as it suits my eyesight and dexterity. On the other hand, I am not a "rivet counter"and can be satisfied with the over-all effect attainable by N scale. I like closed-in industrial and city areas with lots of switching, as well as long coal drags struggling through majestic scenery. In other words, I have been chasing my tail for years[:-^] (And I don’t think I am alone in this.)
So here is what I have finally decided to do. I will do both. I will have an N scale layout upstairs that will represent the long distances through the mountains that my unit trains must navigate between destinations. Downstairs I will have HO layouts that will represent those destinations. No longer will I be kitbashing an HO structure from Art Curren’s book, and fret that I should be doing more in N. Peace at last! Yeah, right.[;)] Anyway, that’s my story, and I’m sticking to it. Has anyone else attempted this before? (I recall an Armstrong plan that used a smaller scale right of way in the background to force the perspective, but this is a little different I think.) As my project(s) progress(es) I will keep everyone up to date.
Don
This is a load of peanut butter.
If you’re doing things that require your track to be THAT durable, you’re doing something wrong.
Ya doing boath would be good but at the moment its a bit out of the question, not onely would i need to but everything (benchwork, DCC controls, wireing and senery) twice i would also need to buy alot of the same locos in boath scales. Now eventually over meny years i will probubly work in the two scales but for my first layout i need to choose.
With the house i live in being quite small i onely have the room that im trying to build in now. the onely other place i could build in is my room wich is small and at the max i could build a 2.5/3ft by 4/5 foot layout with a small stageing yard off to the side wich is not the kind of layouts i really like. I like haveing alot of detail and big trains, i also dont really like being able to see the whole layout in one space, it kinda takes away from the realisim.
Sandecky1989 wrote: “… but at the moment its a bit out of the question, not onely would i need to but everything (benchwork, DCC controls, wireing and senery) twice i would also need to buy alot of the same locos in boath scales.”
Actually, I’m just trying to cope with my guilt for having spent so much on both scales over the years.[;)] Yes, it does seem like a lot of duplication of material and effort, but each is going to be a more modest endeavor, at least in the beginning. (One of the reasons I don’t have a layout now is I’ve always been too ambitious in the early stages, and ended giving up hope---- a common trait amongst many armchair modellers.) This is a major reason I decided to go with DCC. With the simplified wiring and easy hook-up, I can move my control system between layouts. I also don’t plan on having huge stables of locos either.
Don
I’m doing both. I’m building a really simple N-scale layout in my office. And I’m building an HO layout in my basement. Since modeling and scenic details are important to me, my main thrust is HO. But in my office, I just want something to move through some beautiful scenery.
Responding to David Bedard’s post…
Here are (David’s) thoughts. Keep in mind I used to be and N scaler, and am now an avid HO scaler.
N costs more per foot than HO does. It takes more N scale stuff to fill in the space.
HO Myth Number 1. You don’t have to fill the space. One of the beauties of N is you can spread out your railroad. Example… Take any published HO track plan and simply replace the HO track with N. Same number of turnouts, same number of structures. Probably less expensive overall. Although you can now run longer trains through better scenery…
HO destroys N when it comes to detail, selection and reliability.
HO Myth Number 2 There is a growing number of N scale products on the market, the level of detail available on commercially available rolling stock has increased exponentially in recent years, and outside of a couple of sketchy manufacturers, reliability and ease of maintenance is at an all time high.
Some N scale locos are cheaper than their HO counterpart, but decoders are much more expensive.
Zero Sum Gain - A typical quality N scale diesel locomotive can be had for about $85 to $90 with a factory installed decoder. For about $5 more, you can get the loco “decoder ready” and install your own full function decoder.
N scale suffers from electrical contact issues. The weight of HO locomotives allows them to have more consistant and reliable contact to the rails.
HO Myth Number 3 - Electrical contact design in N scale is state of the art. Wireless, low friction, all wheel pick up and split frame mechanisms have made diesel models more re
Thanks for all the info wm3798. I have desided to go with N scale for now, I just dont think that i can model large HO steam engines in a 6.5 ft wide space wile i can do that quite easly in N scale. The onely problem is is from what i’ve seen alot of N scale steam arnt DCC ready so il need to learn how to install decoders in the locos.
Other than that if i learn how to hardwire there are the same amount of locos avaliable to me at about the same price.
Sandeky1989, your second paragraph indicates that you have a firm understanding that, in spatial relationship, N-Scale is 237.5% larger than HO-Scale. You are not trying to shrink the size of your basement nor, does it appear, that you are trying to shrink the size of your layout. Assuming a 1:1 ratio of N-Scale price to HO-Scale price it is going to take you 337.5 N-Scale Iron Men to fill a given space that would only require you to spend 100.00 HO-Scale Iron Men to fill. In actuality N-Scale IS slightly more expensive than HO-Scale so we might have to increase our ratio to 350.0:100; the point here is that, as any N-Scaler can attest to, N-Scale IS significantly more expensive than HO-Scale.
There are indeed a lot of considerations involved in this decision but if money is a significant issue - and in this day of run-away inflation it is likely to become that way for all of us - then HO-Scale is the way you are going to want to go. If, on the other hand, you wish to maximize your railroading in your given space, then N-Scale may be the way you would want to go.
N scale was more expensive for me only because I actually did cram alot into a small space! 15 switches, 2 crossovers, and a turntable in only 18" x 96" will do that! Had I have built an HO layout in this space, I’d have only had room for a simple Inglenook or Timesaver and that would have been it. With all of this I still have enough room for operations for 2 people independently along with some decent scenery including a waterfront.
If I had the available space, my dream layout would actually be a large 3 rail O! Go figure!
If big steam is what you’re after, Athearn has produced a Union Pacific Big Boy and a Challenger in several road names, both are offered with DCC and sound decoders, and by most reports, are very solid runners.
If you’re looking for smaller steam, Bachmann’s Spectrum line has several steamers now, and all are fairly easy to convert to DCC. I’ve done a 2-8-0 myself, and it was no big deal.
If you stick to the latest releases from Life Like/Walthers, Kato, Athearn and Spectrum, you can build a very reliable fleet… it’ll take some bones, but you can do it.
Keep us posted on your progress.
Lee
I will be sticking with N, but I am with you on S… its the “perfect” size. Someday…
My wife actually encouraged me to try S since I liked it so much, so I showed her the prices of the locomotives. She said I should stick with N!
Chris
Lee, your response to David was well thought out and spot on.
RT, if you’re trying to do a city scene, then maybe you’re right about the cost per square foot thing. You can indeed fit more buildings and such in a single square foot in N then you can in HO. If you’re really playing to N scale’s strength however, big scenery for long trains, then I don’t see how the cost is that big of a difference. Wide open scenery is not expensive to create. Trains running through rolling countryside or dominating mountains are what N scale does best, and the only thing that costs more about that is the number of cars that fit in the space. I’ve done both HO scale and N scale, and I’ve found the costs of both to be very similar, item per item. It’s the overall effect that is different. HO scale offers a wider selection of off the shelf stuff with a good level of detail. N scale has a lower detail threshold generally (though there are some extremely detailed models available built in this scale), but rather then the main focus being on a close up scene which is HO’s strength, the viewpoint is generally larger and the scene bigger, which goes well with the longer train lengths.
Just my [2c]
If you try to fill the space, yes, you can easiliy spend more in N scale. But the beauty of N scale shows when you DON’T try to fill the space! The idea of taking an HO layout, and adapting it to N scale, but NOT changing the size is a really good one. All of a sudden a 10 car siding holds almost 20 cars, and things are not right on top of each other. Just adjust things like track centers, and you can have a great layout, and the cost will be very comparable.
True, thats one of the reasons i desied to swich to N scale. i want to be able to make senery and be able to fit the structures i want into the layout. the onely problem is is that its going to cost me a little bit more to get started in N scale than HO. Im not evan going to touch the old block and toggle style of layout when i know a DCC system is alot easer to use and set up. The onely wireing i want to do is for building lights, turnouts moters and moterized things.
In N sale there are no DCC ready starter sets(that i know of) or sets that come with DCC systems so i will need to spend the extra money off that bat to get the same equipment that i woulda gotten in one box with HO scale, But knowing i will be able to fit the stuff i wana get like a 130’ ft turntable, roundhouse and other engine servacing buildings is worth it. all i need to do is get the Hardwireing thing learned so i can get alot of the cheeper N scale locos to start with.
I’m very envious of the selection of goodies available in HO and I see a lot more HO stuff on sale than N scale. If I had the space, I would only do HO. [tup]
One of the problems with availability in N scale is the geniuses who run some of the manufacturers and distributors. For instance, Walthers produced the Automobile Plant series in HO, which to be done properly, requires huge buildings for the assembly plant. The assembly plant they did in HO is stupid small, it didn’t sell well, so they decided that they wouldn’t do it in N. N scale is really more appropriate for that kind of facility, because even on a modestly sized layout, you have room to really represent it well. Just because a product flops in HO doesn’t mean it will fail in N scale… in fact, it would probably do better!
Consider the Walthers Paper mill kit… it goes for over $100, and I know of several N scalers who have purchased two or more of them so they can kitbash it into a larger industry. (One guy used it to bash an auto plant… go figure)
The City Classics line is another one… They make big downtown office buildings in HO, but the only thing they’ve done in N is a gas station. There are a million different gas station kits in N scale, so one that tips the scales at around $40 isn’t going to do well. But large downtown buildings are desparately needed, because in N scale, you have the room to provide space for a big city. (Not everyone has Rod Stewart’s attic… or budget!)
Lee
Just about any large industry would be difficult to do justice to in either N or HO unless one wants to devote a considerable amount of real estate to it which would mean making it the main or only feature of the layout. I think for most folks, whether they model in HO or N, the best way to represent most of a large industrial plant is on their back drop and use low relief and a few foreground structures to represent those parts of the plant that interface directly with the railroad.
While your points are well taken regarding the feasibility of large structures in N scale,