I am in the process of revising my layout. I have built my several connected layout tables with a ½ inch plywood base on 1X4 stringers. I want to tack my track directly to the plywood to start. Eventually, after I am OK with the – placement of sidings, small yard, etc. I will install a track base, thinking Woodland Scenics Trackbed. I am using Atlas code 100 flextrack and Atlas Turnouts. Tacking down the track directly to the plywood is a challenge. I am using ½ inch X 19 nails. These fit great into the pre-drilled holes in the flextrack and have a fairly wide flat head that lays flat on the tie and can be grabbed easily with a needle nose pliers to remove. The challenge is even with drilling a short pilot hole into the plywood, pushing in the ½’’ nails is a problem about 50% to 75% of the time. The plywood sub-layers are very hard and I wind up having to take a ball peen hammer to get the nail completely down the last 3/16” or so. Some of these are very stubborn to nail down and very difficult hammering, require alot of hitting force, and being between the rails and on areas of turnouts – difficult and nerve racking in trying to avoid damaging the rails, turnout points, frogs, etc. I wind up drilling the pilot hole a bit deeper, try to push in the nail, drill abit deeper, repeat. Occasionally, I drill all the way through the plywood and have to move to the next tie. This eventually works, the track section does get tacked down snugly, but is very, very time consuming.
I once used a small, small drill in a Dremel to do this, I forget what drill size, but I think it was like a #60? Drill most of the way through the plywood. Since the drill is smaller than Atlas track nails, it still gives a snug hold, yet it’s much easier to drive the nails. I found I could drive them with an ordinary pair of pliers.
This is the method I use. You want the drill bit to be just slightly less the nail. Start with a #61 to #80 assortment and you’ll be able to get the right size. For example this set
These are a slightly bigger set
I use a small hammer and a nail set to tap the nail down but not tight.
Good luck
Paul
yep, i predrilled the wood through the holes in the ties and even added some extras, especially on curves.
a dremel tool run at the lowest speed setting worked fine. you need to measure the diameter of the nail shank with a dial caliper or small micrometer and then match the drill bit for the best size to use.
i hate to start a rant, but, biggest problem i encountered was chinese nails. many of them had chisel tips instead of points and needed trimming with a pair of side cutters before use.
adequate lighting is a must when doing this. i used a portable gooseneck desk lamp to light the work area.
grizlump
Having been down this road before, have you considered using “dabs” of adhesive caulk to temporaily secure the track? Using a product such as Dap Alex Plus (and the Plus is critical as it is infused with silicone meaning it pretty much will not become brittle and shrink).
By “dab”, I mean 1/4" diameter or less dot spread out thin with a putty knife. When you press the track into it you do not want it to squish up through the rails. On a 3 ft piece of flex track, there would be 3 dabs. My experience is this process allows the track to be easily removed later using the putty knife or a thin bladed real knife.
I am not a fan of the WS sponge/foam as it is compressed too easily, and unevenly, if you are spiking through to the plywood. This is where cork or other products are more consistent.
Consider using brads to hold down cork and then brads to hold your track to the cork until you are ready to make it permanent by caulking?
Ditto. Try caulk. Much quicker and easier. I use extruded foam as a base so nails don;t work anyway, but even if I used a plywood surface I’d still use the caulk. I was skeptical until I tried a little test section prior to building my previous layout and found out hw easy it was. I’m now building my second layout with caulk, no more track nails EVER.
–Randy
LION nails directly into the base material, except that the LION used Celotex rather than plywood. Lighter and easier to cut than Homasote, seems to be more rigid too. But alas, building codes frowned on this stuff 50 years ago. What I have came from buildings that we have torn down.
Still the LION has used plywood and OSB boards as train tables and has nailed flex track directly to it. Start the nail with a needle nose pliers as you have done but then drive it home with a nail set. You can put a big handle on one and you should be able to push the nail into almost anything.
WHY do you want to then put a roadbed under the tracks. I would only consider this if I was making a high speed mane lion track. For most other tracks it is sufficient to just spread some ballast on the tracks where they are.
Here is a picture of some tracks that the LION built. They are laid directly on the table top, and since the line is running in an open cut, I built the edges up rather than down. The ballast comes from Walmart (25# bag is about $4… It has a picture of a cat on it.) Sift out the small pieces with a window screen and throw away the big pieces (or use them as cat litter—the cats will never know the difference)
Following the lead of the 1:1 railroad, gravity holds the ballast in place just fine thank you!
In the few places that I use nails I use this:
http://www.micromark.com/nail-holder,7356.html
And this:
http://www.micromark.com/hobby-hammer-15-oz-head,6746.html
For permanent installation I use DAP caulk.
The problems with nailing track directly to the plywood are that 1) there is a risk that if the nail actually presses into the tie that it will depress the tie a bit and narrow the gauge; 2) nailing the track into the plywood is likely to increase the noise level; 3) the nail does not look prototypical, and 4) track is usually slightly elevated above its surroundings due to drainage issues.
A fifth point: some makes of flex track have no holes.
I don’t even nail my track to cork roadbed but use the adhesive caulk method mentioned above, and covered in more detail in Chuck Hitchcock’s article in the August 2003 Model Railroader. His method was for a more permanent form of track laying than what you are doing but a modified version should work for you – a prior poster gives the basics.
Now for permanent laying of track, I run a bead of latex adhesive caulk in the centerline of the cork roadbed and then smooth it out to the sides of the flat surface using one of those “Your Name Here” fake credit cards that come in the junk mail. What you want is for the flat surface to take on a thin coating of adhesive so that it acts very much like duct tape once it cures.
I have a roller that I then roll over the track to press it evenly into the adhesive. A full can of food from the pantry will work nearly as well.
For a temporary track laying I would squeeze out little short dabs of the adhesive caulk, smooth them out for just an inch or so with the credit card and then place the track. Just two or three dabs per piece of track might be enough. For flex track on curves a strategic T-pin or nail or two might be useful – and it can be pulled out and reused once the caulk sets.
When the time comes to take the track up, a putty knife can be run under the track where there is no adhesive and it should push right through.
Turnouts – I mark where the points are and keep the caulk we
That’s the brand I use. I don;t even notice a smell unless I sniff real close. Definitely after 24 hours, what little there was is gone. I just got that brand because it was the cheapest.
–Randy
What kind of plywood are you using? All of my track is on 3/4 firply and is held in place with Atlas track nails pushed into place. Probably not more than a dozen needed a pilot hole. It is, granted, easier to push the nails into place with cork roadbed in place, as only a portion of the nail penetrates through to the plywood. I do, however, have quite a bit of track laid directly on the plywood, too.
I used the foam roadbed when building a friend’s layout and it’s definitely too squishy to use with nails atop plywood. While latex caulk seems to be today’s preferred method, especially on foam-based layouts, I find nails to be faster to install and get the track into service, and easy to remove if you want to make changes.
Wayne
Thanks to all for the replies and advice, I took special note of Lion’s suggestion to obtain ballast at Walmart, an angle that I never thought of - as always, the feedback from the experienced people in this forum once again will provide me with great insights and keep me from “tripping over my own shoelaces” - thanks so much for taking some time to pass along your advice, insights and experiences.