I tend to not ask alot of guestions here because I can usually find the answer by looking around but I am tired of looking and I want to rehash some things on DCC.
Background- I am building an around the room shelf layout in my basement the room size is 20 x 25 and the layout will wrap around 3 full walls and approx 3/4 of the fourth the layout is 2 feet wide in the majority of areas but will extend out further on each end to facilitate continuous opperation and point to point as needed. I dont have any other operators for this yet as I have no friends yet whom would love to run trains (I need a personal ad for train friends[:o)]) I figure approx 60 to 70 feet for main line run x 2 track main (not including spur lines).
I know nothing first hand about DCC controls I have only seen DCC in operation but never held a controler yet. I know I want DCC on my layout and I want sound on my Trains yet I have no idea which system to use it is a toss up between MRC Prodigy Advance and the Digitrax system. I do not care about the cost of either sysyem just that I will only have to buy this once as my finance officer ( ie wife) will allow only a one time purchase of this type of capitol improvement. All the trains will be modern 1960’s to present diesels.
I dont need to run 100 trains just 2 our three with multiple consist of 2 or more locos.
What is the computer interface and will I need it to program decoders?
Cant i just get an adapter and program the decoder at my computer ( which is not in the basement.) Will it have to be on the track to program?
I figure based on my layout size 2 hand held cabs will be needed to cover all the areas (more if the personal ad works [:o)] )
Whats with transponding and do I need it.
all turnouts will be manual ground throws for now (need the money for Locos and cars).
Which would fit my need Dixitrax or Prodigy advance???
If money isn’t your driving factor and your choices are narrowed to Digitrax or MRC, I’d say go with the Digitrax Chief right off. Once people read your post you’ll get all kinds of other opinions though.
Your questions:
Simply put, it’s a way of connecting the layout to the computer… There are systems out there that you can connect to the computer for programming purposes but they aren’t necassary… Some say they make decoder programming easier though. One note here, the Digitrax computer interfaces are a little long in the tooth. Sadly, this is one part of the technology they don’t appear to have kept up with.
Just one if you are by yourself… The upper end digitrax throttles are 2 in one package. For guest operators, you can go with something like the UT throttles…
Transponding is basically an identification system that’ll tell your system where on the layout (an isolated electrical block) the unit (loco) is… Blocking IS required for it to be of any real use and I suspect it would be most useful in staging or in tunnels… Some digitrax decoders come with transponding installed but you have to also wire for it on the layout. My answer to “do I need it” would be probably not… It certainly isn’t required to run your trains. I’ve never messed with it so that’s about as far as I can go with that question…
Either will probably fit your needs… I’ve already given my vote for the digitrax system though…
I appreciate the replies thus far but I should note that I am comparing The digitrax Zepher system and the Prodigy Advance statems since there all inclusive systems for beginners right out of the box. I wish money were no object here as I would buy both and decide from there.
First off, I think you are doing the right thing to consider DCC. For me, it just makes a lot more sense. I’ll try and answer some of your questions.
The computer interface or port connection allows you to interface your DCC controller or command station directly with a computer via an RG-232 or USB connection. This would come in handy if you should ever desire to control a signal system on your layout from your computer.
Anytime you want to swing up to Cleveland, you are more than welcome to stop over and run your locomotives on my DCC layout. Granted, it’s only a Bachmann E-Z Command on a 4 x 8 BUT…it works.
On a plus note, my new NCE PowerCab ought to be coming in the mail [tup] in the next week or so. (Can’t wait! [:D]) If you want, Will, I can e-mail you when I’ve got it set up on the layout and you can gain some firsthand experience with PowerCab to see how you like it or not. Drop me an e-mail and let me know.
Can you explain what you mean by “backwards compatible” ? Why is Digitrax "backwards compatible and MRC isn’t ?
From what I have learned about MRC’s Prodigy Express system, it can easily be expanded by adding boosters and additional cabs. It can even upgraded to the Prodigy Advanced system by simply buying a PA cab. The PA system can also be expanded with additional boosters, and cabs. Are you saying that all that is not true ?
I, too, have been shopping around for a system and have been focusing on the Digitrax Zepher.
I’m not quite sure what the poster meant by “backwards compatabillity”, but with the “loconet”/computer interface, it does seem to allow more flexibillity with computer integration for signalling, dispatching and ease of programing the decoders. In addition the interface, (I believe I read somewhere), would allow for “firmware” updates/upgrades to the command unit as the technology changes in the future.
Digitrax offers a less costly secondary cab/throttle, without all the programming features. MRC does not, you have to buy the more expensive handheld command unit/throttle for each additional handheld throttle you want to add.
Digitrax offers wireless cabs, MRC does not.
As there is only about 20-30 bucks difference in price, the Digitrax system seems more attractive to me.
No, I’m NOT saying that Prodigy Advance isn’t expandible. (Yes, you can add throttles and boosters to your PA.) What I am saying is that the Prodigy Advance system is NOT (backward) compatible with the older Prodigy system - i.e. when you “upgrade” from the Prodigy to the Prodigy Advance, you have to buy all NEW stuff.
With the Digitrax system, as you expand your layout, they guarantee (for now) that their equipment will always be compatible with itself - no matter how old it is. You can add on, or even upgrade to a new system knowing that your old booster and current throttle and latest and greatest new DCC accessory that is coming out will always work nicely together. That amounts to saving $$$ over the long haul.
Why is it that everyone who owns an MRC system thinks it is so easy to program with? I had a PA for a short time, and found it no easier than using my Digitrax systems for this purpose. While I’ll admit anyone attempting to program using a Zephyr without a DT throttle might have some trouble (and maybe this is what I keep reading about), programming using a DT series throttle, especially the 400 series, is a snap and the system gives you a lot of information about what you are doing. I would love to see someone demonstrate to me something that is easier to do with the PA or PE than with a Digitrax product be it programming or anything… [?]
Besides, why at this point in time with all the good (free) software that enables you to program with a computer, would anyone program with the DCC system? Other than making very small changes, I never even hit the PROG button on my cabs. I realize the MRC system doesn’t support a computer interface at this point, but why don’t all the Zephyr owners who have a hard time programming their decoders download DecoderPro? Apparently some folks have no idea how nice it is to be able to save a locomotives configuration file somewhere safe, and to be able to modify complex things like speed tables and 100+ CV value sound decoders with a point and click interface. Admittedly I haven’t used DecoderPro much since purchasing a LokProgrammer, but it’s still a great way to manage that locomotive fleet… [;)]
You’re leaving out the UT4. If you just want to RUN TRAINS the UT4 is all you need, you do NOT need a DT400. The Super Chief set comes with a DT400, that can be the only one of those you have, all other operators can run their trains with a UT4. The Zephyr can do programming right from the console, so theoretically you would never need a DT400, just UT4’s.
And what is this about the Digitrax computer interface getting long int eh tooth? The Locobuffer is as state of the art as it gets, BUFFERING packets between your computer and the Loconet, not just blindly sending data. You cna build one yourself or buy a commercial one from RR-CirKits. Long in the tooth? *** is currently readying a USB version for sale. The only other DCC system that offers a USB computer interface is Lenz. But any of the older Locobuffers work fine with a USB to serial converter, as do other DCC systems with serial-only.
If you want to program off the layout, take a look at the SPROG, which is a standalone programmer expressly supported by JMRI and DecoderPro. Completely independent from whatever DCC system you might use.
What everyone fails to tell you is that the Digitrax DT400 is 2 (TWO) throttles in one hand-held. ( that might be why the price is a little higher that the others – but not twice the cost) No one else does this. I love those that spout off about how hard/bad Digitrax is to use or what features it has/does not have. I usually just bite my tongue rather than responding.
The Zephyr is the good base system which allows you to have a separate programming track that you can program engines while the rest of the layout is still running. A number of other systems do not allow this. While you really do not need this feature it is there. It also allows you to add on with the DT400 keypad just by plugging into the base unit. No other additions needed.
Yes you can add a computer interface but 90% do not need it (unless they like to play computers better than play trains)! As for programming the engines I only need to program them once and this is when I initially set them up.
Everyone on the forums seems to give the impression to the beginners that they are programming more than they are running the trains. With me this ain’t the way it is. I do not set around and play programming, I run the trains!
Now when I set up an engine for the first time (I put the engine on a separate programming track) I program in the address (4-digit) and this all of 6 to 8 key stokes. Now I put the engine on the track and watch it run.
Sounds pretty easy? IT is! Now why does everyone talk and talk about how hard it is to program. (shush! - maybe they like to make it seem like it is a big secret). Now there are other CV’s that you can change but you don’t have to if you do not want to. Everyone else goes on and on and on. Enough!
The same way is it is to acquire and engine on a DT400 keypad. The manual goes about this for 4 pages – or so. The thing to remember is that the DT400 is TWO complete controllers, that can be used at the same time. So to acq
Would that be northwestern “Prodigy Advance” or Pennsylvania…? (Just kidding.)
Will, looks like Bob is about an hour west of Youngstown. (Is that right, Bob?) Hey, if you’re ever interested in checking out Bob’s layout and Zephyr on a Saturday sometime, I’d be interested in going along.
I dont know about the rest of you guys but I have a bottle of Tylenol here if you need some, This is so much information all very useful indeed. I think the one thing that was drawing me toward the MRC unit was no big bulky base unit like the Zepher I liked the fact that the MRC unit was a handheld right from the word go. I relize that the Zepher has upgrade ability and works with a computer I wont be running trains with a computer but easily setting them up with on is very appealing to me.
Just what is needed to use decoder pro if I buy a Zepher system and if I need other item at what cost?
Tom, Bob, you gentlemen are very kind to invite a stranger to your homes to show them how your systems work I am very honored by this. You are true champions of the Hobby Thanks.
Based on the number of Fuction keys will the Digitrax system allow for fuction of a decoder with sound and lights like directional and ditch lights allong with strobe???
Again thanks to all whom have responded so far I am taking all opinions and facts into consideration.
note that the USB version is not available yet , but should be soon , and that the older serial port versions seem to have been discontinued but may still be available from dealers or used on ebay etc.
As you can see, it’s a handheld unit. It only has 1.7 amps of power but that will easily run you 2-3 locomotives at a time. The 3-amp booster is only $60. It’s supposed to be shipping any moment now. The NCE PC does come with a USB port to link with your computer. The PC can also be upgraded to and utilized as a second throttle in their Powerhouse Pro system. Maybe worth a consideration.
Will, DecoderPro is FREE and can be downloaded from the JMRI web site.
All you need is a working computer (min. 120 MHz Pentium II w/ 48 MB of RAM) that has an RG and/or USB port. That’s it! [:)]
Just let me know if you’d like to stop by sometime…
[quote]
QUOTE:
Based on the number of Fuction keys will the Digitrax system allow for fuction of a decoder with sound and lights like directional and ditch lights allong with s
A computer. Just about any type (Mac, Windows, Linux, etc) will do, and if all you’re going to use it for is decoder programming, it can be as slow as you can put up with. In other words, just about any old (or new) computer will work just fine. It doesn’t need to be dedicated to the layout.
A Loconet interface device. This can be either the Digitrax MS100 ($35 at Tony’s) or some version of the LocoBuffer. I say “some version” because they range from build-it-yourself up to commercially available packages that include all the bells and whistles. See http://www.rr-cirkits.com/
Two things to note:
First, JMRI does much more than just make decoder programming easier. You can save all the CV values for all your locos, so if a decoder ever gets reset or replaced, you can easily reload those custom CV values. Or if you buy another similar loco, you can easily copy the CV values from one to another. Plus, JMRI also supports signalling, dispatching, layout automation, LocoNet monitoring/diagnosis, and more.
Secondly, you’ll get lots of opinions about the LocoBuffer vs. the MS100. The MS100 is usually cheaper because it’s more or less a “dumb” interface, but that “dumbness” has been known to sometimes cause communication problems between the computer and the LocoNet. (For what it’s worth, I bought my MS100 before there was a commercially-made LocoBuffer available, and haven’t had any problems using it with three different PC’s over the years. )
On the other hand, an assembled and tested LocoBuffer will probably cost more, but you’re virtually guaranteed that you will have bullet-proof com
Let me know how the NCE system work for you it looks very much like the MRC version minus the knob. I have excluded the Bachman system its just too basic for me I like bells and whistles no pun intended. I will take you up on that offer here in the near future for the layout visit we might be able to do some Train spotting up your way at the same time.