Name the Turnout parts help?

Model Railroader General Discussion (Model Railroader)
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Guess before I can try to fix turns outs so they work right I need to know what the driffrents parts are called. Also need to know if I am using the NMRA gauge right. In the PIC I am point at the part I want to know the name of with a pen.

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If I have the order right in PIC 5 I am using the gauge section that is called “Flangeway”, is this where it should be used? What should I look for as well when using it? PIC 6 should be Points and same question.

I think where the main line goes into the turnout is called the heel, and end the track splits is called the toe, is that right?

If you have a derailing problem when a train is heading in from the toe, what do you look for and what PIC is it in? Heading in from the heel I all ready know, well I think what to look for.

Trying not to throw anything again, Cuda Ken

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pic 1 points of a turnout.

pic 2 don’t know what that’s called

pic 3 guard rails

pic 4 frog

I think your using that right. I don’t have one so I don’t know.

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  1. Points.

  2. Hinges (these don’t appear on a real railroad turnout).

  3. Guard rail.

  4. Frog.

  5. You should use the part marked “track” here.

  6. You should use the part of the NMRA gauge marked “flangeways” here. The “points” gauge is for the points part (see 1 above) to ensure the wheels have proper clearance through the points (i.e., the train won’t “pick” the switch").

The end that has the throwbar and the points is the “point” end and the end that diverges is called the “frog” end. The rails that move are called the “closure rails” and the ones that don’t are called “stock rails.”

Hope this helps! I’d have to actually watch a video of your train going through the switch to tell you what’s going wrong…

If that’s brass track (it sure looks like it) you may have some trouble with electrical continuity later on. If it’s nicket silver, you’ll probably want to buy a Bright Boy and clean the top of the rails. The Bright Boy is an abrasive block that looks like a brown eraser.

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This page on the NMRA’s site may help http://www.nmra.org/standards/rp2.html

Good luck
Paul

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Let’s do this by the numbers:

  1. the points or point rails. There are two, one for each rail.

  2. the pivot. Two of these. It’s what allows the points to swing back and forth. It also provides a through path for electrical current to the points. If your locos stall on the points, these pivots may not be working properly.

  3. a guardrail. It’s purpose is to keep the flanges of the wheels from wandering back and forth and helps direct the wheels to the proper path, straight or diverging. The space between the guard rail and the stock rail is a flangeway. Depth of the flangeways may be causing derailments if the wheel flanges are hitting the bottom of the flangeway. If you determing that to be a problem, deepen the flangeways by carefully filing the bottom of the flangeway with a file or thin hacksaw blade.

  4. the frog. It allows the wheels to cross over another rail. Frogs are also used on cross tracks. The space between the rails of the frog is also a flangeway. To avoid confusion, the inner rail that LOOKS like a guard rail is called a wing rail. If you loco stalls on the frog, the problem is usually that the loco is only getting power through one truck, even if BOTH trucks are powered. When that truck passes through a plastic frog, it momentarily loses power and stalls. Most Atlas turnouts have plastic frogs. Locos with flywheels tend to ‘drift’ over the frogs when they lose power as the flywheel will keep the loco moving until power is picked up again.

  5. & 6. Check out this website. It has instructions for using the different parts of the gauge: http://www.nmra.org/standards/rp2.html These instructions are better than what I could describe in this post.

I don’t recognize the terms “heel” and “toe” as appli

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Hey,

isn’t this the guy who was tossing it all in and selling his stuff?

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#1 is the point rail point…itself.

#2 is the point rail pivot, which is unlike anything that the prototype uses.

#3 is a guard rail meant to guide wheel flanges tight to its rail so that the other wheel doesn’t hop up over the frog and derail.

#4 is the frog area, but your pen seems to be closest to the frog point. The rails on either side of the frog point are also guard rails, but they are part of the point rails, as you can see when you trace them along their lengths.

#5 is the side of the gauge that shows if your wheel flange paths are clear for NMRA RP 25 flange depths. It is only an approximation for track gauge…not a good one, either. You want to use the opposite end of the track gauge to the one you show in this picture to test your track Your wheel flange gauge is on the right side of the NMRA gauge as you show it. The flanges should fit in the grooves.

#6 has the points gauge in the frog, so it is misplaced. You should only use the points gauge between the inside of a closed point (where it lies against its stock rail…the outside-most rails of the turnout) and the inside of the appropriate stock rail that the other wheel will ride when that point is closed.

If the rolling stock does not cross the frog assembly without derailing when it enters the points end of the turnout, chances are the wheels are not in gauge or their flanges are too large for the depth of the turnout flange-path. I assume that the frog is in good condition, not having been corroded or distorted by pressure and lots of use.

Ken, I too have had moments when I quite literally broke into a dripping sweat when building my track, making turnouts, finding derailment problems, finding shorts and circuit breaks, finding why my decodered locos won’t respond to commands when they did the day before, etc. You MUST stop, step back, and think a bit. It necessary, go peel some spuds and wash some dishes while you ponder your

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Okay… answer from a railwayman (i.e. English not American… so some of our practice is a little different but I can usually translate okay)

1st:- I’m glad to see that you’re still in the game [:)]

2nd - some of this you’ll know but bear with me, it helps me to go through step by step… also that way I won’t miss something you’re not aware of.

3rd - a few bits are my opinion - which is not perfect but is based on experience (years of it).

Right… starting with Pic 1

As above this shows the points… of the blades. (Skip to pic 2 and we can see both that the blades are stub blades pivoted close to the tips of the blades and that the blades at least appear to be made of a different material to the rest… I’m pretty sure that they are pressed from a sheet of alloy metal (to get the thin-ness) - whereas the rest of the rail is extruded (squished out through a profiled hole under pressure like tooth paste). It looks like the other rail is brass.

[Opinion. Junk these fast! I would guess that thes are 30 years old at least. You’re building a new layout with new technology available for not-so-many-$$$.

You wouldn’t dig up a used 30 year old car part and put it in your latest race car if you wanted it to run well let alone compete.

You will save yourself a whole load of time, effort and distress if you at least change out each of these old switches as they fail or, better -much better - still, change them all out as fast as you can manage.

You have a choice on new switches. Personally I prefer Walthers/Shinohara switches for looks on the scenicked part of the layout (Microscale are even better but come in only one size). Off scene I wouldn’t use anything other than Peco. I’ve been using them for at least 30 years and the only troubles that occur result from me doing something wrong/stupid. Peco are the only switches that I wou

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1 The track is Nickel code 100, the brass look is from the flash plus very drity.

2 On the back it says " # 6 right custom-line Atlas.

3 Never been on the board, I was going to use it to replaces the turn out I think is bad.

4 Yes, I am the guy that throws stuff, and asked about selling my stuff on E-bay.

5 Darrell, I will more than likely call you.

Dave The Train, thank you for the long answer, I understood about half of it but thanks for the answer. I will be printing all the answers out and re reading all the answers and all so the NMRA links as well.

Dave, you may very well be right about the age of the turn out. The blades are a driffrent metal than the rails as you said. Frog is pot metal not plactic and seems perfect. I filed down the blades some and rounded the tips off. But at last, I think it is junk. I just checked it with NMRA track gauge and what I will still call the heel where the joints go it is perfect, 1/4 in to big, then at the blades perfect again. Don’t think I am going to take a chanes again.

My track has around 10 of them installed but so far only one seems to be a real problem, but could well be 30 years plus. Came from a estate sell and at $1.00 a turn out I still cannot say it was a bad buy.

I have 4 Pecos and will say I love them. But, at this point I only have around $10.00 a week to spend. So I will buy a new Atlas trun out, new $8.95 vers Peacos at $16.95. But have a better idea what I need to make them work after the reading the MRR Mag article.

Thanks for all the answers folks, hope this post helps other dummies like me.

Cuda Ken

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I just bought a pair of those same switches! Hey, if you have to throw stuff, get something almost harmless and leave a good, solid wall empty. More damage only makes things worse.

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I have to added, been a pretty good train night. For 3 hours no big problems and nothing went air born.[8D]

1 Kadee came un done but sure not mad. Maybe there is is hope yet for me.

Ken

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Oh there is hope for you friend. stick in there

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Just in case you don’t already know… where it says that it is a No6 turnout…

If you add a dead straight rail from each of the rails leading to/from the frog you should find that at a point 6" from the tip of the frog the two rails are 1" apart.

The same way a number 4 switch would achieve that 1" divide in 4" and a number 8 would achieve it in 8". So a No4 is sharper in the overall curve and a No 8 is shallower/easier. That works for both handed switches and diamonds. A Y will have a number 1/2 as big because both sides are turning away from the straight centre line. This means that the same radius curves as a No6 RH (right hand) will produce a No3 in a Y.

I’ve never heard of that make of Atlas and I don’t recall a solid metal frog in any switches this side of the pond. It helps to explain why the blades travel so far from the stock rails… the switch is efectively a live frog and the huge gap at the blades helps to avoid the old big wheels making a short circuit.

I guess that at 1$ a go they’ve got you started and you’ve learnt a whole lot… and you’ve survived the stress!

You’re no-way dumb… you have the sense to ask questions.

I hope my answer becomes clearer with a second read.

PS I would still encourage you to go or the best switches… it’s simliar to putting the best brakes in your car. Even if you only do them as they conk out or at say one a month you will find it worth while in the long run. Don’t forget the Pecos will recycle with little problem so you stand to get at least 2X the value from them. The Walthers and ME switches will also recycle IF/ Provided you are extremely careful lifting them out. (They also make terrific loads).

Have a nice day [8D]

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Ken,

Knowing you as well as I do, (LOL) my recommendation is to get yourself one of those nerf-type balls (the ones made of sponge rubber and football or baseball sized). Keep it in your pocket or close by whenever you are at the layout. When something goes wrong, THROW THE NERF BALL!!! You will get almost the same amount of satisfaction (almost, but not quite!) and you won’t have to replace any locos or rolling stock!

Make sure you get the spongy-type balls. Personal experience has shown me that golf balls are NOT an acceptable substitute!! LOL

Darrell, not immune from tossing things, but quiet…for now

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Dave The Train, I am a little surprised on your side of the pound you have not hear of Atlas. Here in the state’s they are the main stay of the rails layed. All the Atlas are number 6’s and that is as tight as I will go. Pecos are #8’s. I will check today at K-10’s train, but I think the motors are the currrnet makes. Funny, I have not wired any of them up at this point to work, rather “THROW” them by hand.[}:)]

Darrell, I I have some foam samples from work I can throw. [;)] But I never get mad at the foam.[:D]

And you wonder why I needed a new power pack? Just kidding, it just got pulled off the desk when I tripped over the power cord.

Today MRR Day got off to a little of a shakey start, had to reail a couple of cars before the train made it around the board but all is good now.

Cuda Ken

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It’s the sub-make of Atlas i haven’t met before… reckon it must be pretty ancient. I have “one or two” Atlas locos and some of their stock.

Good (unsubtle) hint with power cords… if they are not moving duct tape them down… can save a fortune. Guess how I know?[B)]

Have a nice day! [:P]

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Have you seen the insurance thread?[?]