Thanks for the replies guys. So based on these two reponses let me make sure I understand things correctly…
The Power Cab and Power Pro do not power the track in the same way. In the case of the Power Cab, the “booster” is built into the handheld and the track power comes from it. Again, this concerns me as I know how thin phone wire is and how little current that gauge of wire will pass over distances of more than a few feet.
Sounds like all forms of consisting is supported. That’s a plus and the lack of this feature would have been a deal breaker for me. While I’m fine with 10 year old Lenz systems and inexpensive MRC systems not supporting this, I’m glad NCE thought enough to include it in this product.
Shutting off the main while programming is very old school and seems sort of ridiculous to me. Even my Zephry can program a decoder on the programming track while continuing to run trains on the main. Why even provide a separate output if it’s not separate?
No zero stretch support. Ummm, while Joe may think this is a useless feature at this point, I use it extensively for testing and would not own a DCC system without it. Even if I didn’t run analog locomotives, the fact the booster doesn’t support this feature leads me to believe that the command station is using sub-par packet encoding or has a slow processor, either of which could lead to system slow downs and other problems. While I’m not sure why they didn’t, I see no reason not to include this feature if the processor is up to the task (don’t follow MRC’s poor example in this regard). Remember even the $60 B-mann system can zero stretch!
From what Joe said, it sounds like the Power Cab is pretty comparable to the Power Pro from a handheld feature standpoint. That’s good to know, but makes me wonder if the Power Pro also has a quirky programming track output and no zero stretch feature. I’m sure someone can clarify this.
NCE by default goes to advanced consisting which to me is by far the best way to go. As far as consisting goes it will actually ask for the Lead loco, the Rear loco and then any other loco’s in the consist. As a result you can then select the consist based on the lead or rear loco and then drive in the right direction and use all it’s functions. NCE can do command station based consisting but it has less features that way.
Because with the features built into the way NCE uses programming on the main you rarely need to use the programming track. All I use a programming track for is to set the address initially and for any decoder shorts, after that I do everything on the main.
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No zero stretch support. Ummm, while Joe may think this is a useless feature at this point, I use it extensively for testing and would not own a DCC system without it. Even if I didn’t run analog locomotives, the fact the booster doesn’t support this feature leads me to believe that the command station is using sub-par packet encoding or has a slow processor, either of which could lead to system slow downs and other problems. While I’m not sure why they didn’t, I see no reason not to include this feature if the processor is up to the task (don’t follow MRC’s poor example in this regard). Remember even the $60 B-mann s
Jeff I have to wonder as well. Both of these throttles have been discontinued by Digitrax. I have one of the old DT-100’s and I try my best NOT to use it if I can use a DT400 instead.
I’m glad to realise there is a reason that running un-chipped locos is impossible on the NCE system as it is the only problem I have with the Procab system. I love the easy to use hand held, the easy programming and the display is the clearest on the market IMHO.
I know Digitrax has an entrenched customer base but I do find Digitrax buttons too fiddly (personal opinion) and the whole despatching to another throttle brought my last operating session at a friend’s layout to a standstill until we got the manuals out.
Correction: Unlike the Power Pro, the Power Cab uses only ONE connection to main and programming tracks. You have to wire it into a connector or SPDT switch so that you can separate the power to one or the other track. With that set up, you should be able to run trains while programming a locomotive. The Power Cab does support programming on the main.
Kathy’s observations mirror my own – and I typically run on Digitrax layouts that have a lot of older Digitrax handhelds. I do know Digitrax has improved their user interface with later releases, but it still takes an object - action approach (pick the thing, then say what you want to do) instead of the more intuitive action - object approach (press the button, then say what thing to do it to).
Also Digitrax’s object - action approach means they have painted themselves into a corner with regard to prompting. You might want to start with a loco or an accessory, and then pick some action to do to it. How would the prompting work? “Pick the thing you want: loco or accessory …” then you type in some number. Now what do you say? “Press some action button …” Unfortunately, it’s kind of clumsy, and the buttons become a mix of objects and actions – but you get to guess which is which.
With Digitrax you have to just memorize keypresses and if you need to do something you don’t do a lot, out come the manuals.
Now take action - object. All the buttons are actions, with a number pad and an enter key. Much easier to give you prompts to step you through it. Put some simple action labels on your handheld: Select Loco, Consist - Add, Consist - Del and so on. Once you press Select Loco, the screen can display “What Loco?” and you type in a number and press enter.
Often, with an action - object interface, you can guess where to start and with some reasonable prompts you can make your way through it and no manuals required.
That’s been my experience with NCE, EasyDCC, Lenz, and Digitrax – and that’s the order I would list them as far as user interface friendliness. Oh yes, and I would place
Jeff,
Haven’t had mine long enough to answer all your questions. Check NCE’s site and download the Power Cab manual. It will tell you how every works and should answer most of your questions on consists and programming. Bruce
The biggest drawback to this system, other than feeding power in from the power supply and then back out to the track through light duty telephone cable, is the limitation of being able to add only ONE additional cab control. This limits the system’s usefulness to only the smallest of home layouts having two or less operators. While it’s true each throttle can toggle back & forth between two trains for a system total of four trains, either operator can only run one train at a time, while the system runs the other in “cruise control”. Toggling back and forth can cause problems on a small layout, since problems are likely to occur faster than you can toggle to correct them! Also, since the tethered “master” cab carries the track power, only the second cab can be run as a wireless cab (at great extra expense). The Digitrax Zephyr is still the most feature-rich of the beginners systems, and it’s ability to use older power packs as additional throttles in the interim seems like a big plus for those on a limited budget. It’s initial cost is only $10-$20 more than the NCE PowerCab, but in the long run, it will be easier and cheaper to expand as your layout grows. For smaller layouts don’t overlook Digitrax’s support of Infra-red wireless cabs, a cheaper alternative to radio control. Regards, Bill Nielsen Oakland Park, FL
Let me add to my previous post about DCC system user interfaces that I am a professional web designer and I spend a lot of my day thinking about how to make web pages easy for the general public to use without needing to go to help pages or pull out some manual (can’t really do that on the web) – so I design intuitive (no manual required) user interfaces on the web as part of my job.
I offer this to show that my DCC user interface observations are at least somewhat based on professional opinion – still opinion mind you – but at least the comments are coming from a user interface expert.
And you know how to define expert (ex - spert), right? Ex means “used to be” and a spert is a drip under pressure … [swg]
I believe you can add as many additional two-throttle panels as you want to the Powercab system for $15 each.
So spend another $15 gives you 4 throttle slots, $30 gives you 6 throttle slots and so on.
No question the Digitrax Zerphyr is a flexible, expandible system and those who have one are rarely disappointed with it. And it is infinitely expandable – a big plus.
But the powerpack form factor of the Zephyr is also less convenient than a handheld walkaround form factor, especially with the increasing popularity of programming on the main. And I believe the NCE Powercab system is also infinitely expandable to more throttles, all the way up to the full Powerhouse wireless NCE system.
Bottom line both the Zephyr and the Powercab are very nice, expandable systems. It just depends on what is best for YOU and what you prefer.
With the Smart Booster due out, this will raise the total max. output of the Power Cab to 3A, as well as providing the capacity fo adding 3 additional throttles. It will, however, come at an additional cost of ~$60 (discount).
Question for you Bill. Don’t you also have to toggle back and forth to control 2 locomotives with the Zephyr, as well?. I only remember seeing one throttle control on the console. Is there another one, or were you refering to one of the other systems?
Keeping track of more than two locomotives simultaneously - no matter how large or small your layout is - is a recipe for potential mishap. I do understand your point though. With a small layout, your need for immediate action will more than likely come quicker and more often than with a larger layout.
While I’m glad NCE decided to support universal consisting, I would be intrigued to find out what the disadvantages this form of consisting with the Power Cab really means to the end user. Advanced consisting is just fine for older systems with limited processor horsepower, but you would be hard pressed to convince me to use it with any Digitrax hardware. The biggest advantage advanced consisting has is the fact is only uses one address against the slot limit because the decoders are dealing with the consist information and not the command station. Either way, the method of consisting is you chose is fine as long as it works for you, so I don’t see any reason to argue which one is better.
What features are built into the NCE that would proclude the use of a properly setup programming track? The only command station I know of that can read CV values on the mainline is Digitrax, and even then you must use Digitrax decoders (or the new Tsunami) for this feature to work. I certainly wouldn’t try to remember what I’ve setup in over 150 different CV values in my Loksound and Tsunami decoders every time I wanted to change something.
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Zero stretching isn’t recommended by any DCC manufacturer. In
Hey Joe - Digitrax has a LOCO button. Same thing as Select Loco.
I’m not sure I get the reversed object reference thing. With my Digitrax system I pick the action then decide what to apply it to - Hit the SWITCH button, enter a turnout address, and then operate it. Hit the LOCO key, then key in the address I want. Seems pretty much the same on all systems.
One thing to keep in mind, while the PowerCab is a handheld walkaround format - you can NOT unplug the PowerCab. It must remain plugged in to the left jack on the PowerPanel at all times. To have real walkaround you have to buy a second throttle, just like Digitrax. The second throttle can be pulled out and plugged in elsewhere at will.
Most of the systems all seem to workt he same whay when it comes to common operations like selcting and running a loco. There’s usually some sort of Loco or Select button you hit, then key in the address - although Digitrax also lets you spin the knobs to dial up an address if you really want to. Most have a pair of buttons to switch direction - Digitrax also lets you click the knob to change direction. There may be some programming benefits to NCE, but there’s nothing complicated about the Zephyr or DT400. Like others it will set CV29 for you automatically when changing the address. There aren’t special prompts for any other NMRA standard CVs, but when someone posts instructions like “set CV56 to 31” it’s pretty easy on a DT400 - hit PROG, dial up 56 on the left knob (says CV on the screen near that knob, will show CV56 when you get there, followed by =) Dial the value on the right knob, press ENTER. Screen reads CV56=31, seems pretty straightforward to me. Took longer to type than do, too. The older Digitrax throttles with multiple functions per key truly were a pain. But the first thing heard when the DT400 came out, with dedicated buttons for everything, including a complete numeric keypad? “OMG, too many buttons!”
I am using 2 cab DC with DPDT center off toggle switches. If I where to go to this NCe system as I read it all I would have to do is turn off my DC system & use the NCE system.
Because the club I belong to is DCC I have converted about half of my locos. So until I convert all of my locos I would be able to switch back & forth. Correct?