Need 2 ID's, Old Mantuas or Bashing ?

Model Railroader General Discussion (Model Railroader)
1

Hi all again!
These 2 are from the same tag sale. One Santa Fe , El Capitan. It has Cardboard sides, wood bottom. The other is Canadian National, it is Metal with wood bottom. Any ideas?
Many thanks, Ted

2

could be old Ulrich kits