Hopefully I’m in the right forum to post this question.
OKC’s Union Station is on the National Register of Historical Places #78002884 but the Oklahoma Department of Transportation somehow has permission to destroy 2/3 of the station just as long as the building remains.
Can anybody provide advice on appealing something of this nature? Does anybody know how to get outside media involved in saving this station? Oklahoma City is so pro-destruction of this station that I’m looking at outside media outlets.
The Norman City Council almost passed a resolution to get the governor of Oklahoma invovled but they want to view the station first. Believe it or not, some of them didn’t know that it existed. Neither did I for that matter but once I found it, I’m attempting to make it useful once again and/or save it from destruction.
When you say “destroy 2/3 of the station just as long as the building remains.”, What exactly are they tearing down? The passenger concourses up by the tracks? The balloon tracks into the concourses? Other things?
If the first two, all I can say is “rotsa ruck”…in almost all of the “station savings” I’ve seen first hand, unless they serve some commercial purpose (commuter, freight, etc) they are the first to go, because they want to re-deploy the land use to something that will serve a purpose
There are the underground tunnels that connect Union Station to the passenger loading platforms that will be destroyed for the new highway.
There’s an effort in OKC to save those tunnels and the tracks above them to use them for light rail when House Respresentative Istook understands that there’s a need for light rail in Oklahoma City.
Having spent a couple of years in my pre-railfan days in OKC, this piqued my interest, so I did a quick search and gleaned the following:
ODOT is proposing to relocate the I-40 corridor through OKC. Their plan calls for removal of all but one track of the OKC Union Station yard, which, of course, makes it not quite as valuable as a rail resource. The head building will remain. Sounds like quite the place.
There appears to be substantial controversy as to whether the entire highway construction project is really necessary, OKCUS concerns or not, and I saw several references to “special interests”. That, of course, means that somebody stands to make some money off this project. There was also question of whether the money really existed to carry out the project as planned.
When one ODOT official was queried as to whether the concerns raised by a knowledgeable retired expert, he indicated that there was substantial pressure to move the project forward. ODOT is apparently being quite agressive about acquiring other properties necessary for the project.
Sounds like a boondoggle to me. A few railfans aren’t going to make a difference - the citizenry of Oklahoma are going to have to be heard.
I think I got it all right. Do a net search on “OKC Union Station” and read for yourself.
Actually there’s a movement that 's trying to save the station by involving an outside city and here’s a couple of news stories links. I guess I should’ve included them in my previous reply.
Most of you haven’ t seen the art deco of Oklahoma City’s Union Station. Its in the SE area of downtown, near the new developments of the Brickyard area…Brick mind you… While the buiding is s wonderful marble, the bulk of the tunnel and the elevated part is concrete…
The railroad tracks, 2 or 2 of them are elevated, running north and south, therefore the need for the steps down to the station and the tunnel, all ugly concrete mind you… The benches are wooden bus stop benches with their advertising…And the concrete has cracks and ain’t seen a drop of paint ever…
Oklahoma City would be wise to build a brand new small BEAUTIFUL depot. Somewhere and something else would be better than saving this concrete and marble elephant… Today the elevated part eats up 2 blocks, and separates downtown from the new Brickyard developments… Might be the reason why they want to tear it down…
I have a picture of it. It is ugly…in my opinion… and today does not match the architecture of the surrounding new Brickyard developements…
This would be a wonderful depot in Clovis, NM, but its really not OKC…
I have seen two stations saved by making them into hotels, however since this one is still an active train station, I’m not sure such a thing woud be feasible in this case.
Keep trying
George
I’m not really sure which I’d prefer - some elevated track or an elevated expressway…
Not having seen site plans, I don’t know how the planned expressway will interface with the rest of the area. If they are planning on an updated version of the old I-40 I knew, I think I rather have the rails…
Update - just looked at the map of OKC - If they are going to do what I think they are going to do, they will just replace some elevated track with six lanes of noisy, smelly vehicles. It will actually be more disruptive of any development in the area than the rails could ever hope to be.
The elevated track was built to separate rail from road traffic. Taking out the elevated rail will put trains on grade crossings, which should make all of the drivers real happy. Of course, it will be the railroads fault for tying up traffic…
There are 2 depots in Oklahoma City. One is the Sante Fe depot which is elevated and has 2 tracks going north and south.
The other is Union Station built by Rock Island and opened in 1931 and tracks serving the entire state of Oklahoma.
The Union Station is a much better choice because it’s built to be a multimodal transportation center effective even today. It can handle handicap patrons as well where as the Santa Fe Depot cannot.
Santa Fe depot is currently in use serving the Amtrak’s Heartland Flyer.
The current ODOT plan is to destroy all tracks and tunnels and replace it with one track. They think that’ll suffice for Oklahoma’s future rail needs.
The reason why Norman is considering getting the governor involved is because lots of people know that the highway deal is a sham.
Do I have a prayer? I think so. Submit enough proof and facts to enough people and they’ll stop this from happening. Not enough people are educated yet about the true nature of this highway move.
You are seeing photos of the Union Station after years of neglect. I think the architecture could be quite beautiful if the right cleaning up and colors were used properly. 2. I think religious organizations are an untapped resource to promote use of public transit of all types, definitely including trains and light rail, and to discourage more highway sprawl . In the Bible, the Eternal commands to preserve health and to preserve nature. Highway sprawl is against both and use of public transit is for both . You might find some real friends when you point out the connection to clergy.
Also, religious people in general are more interested in preservation of past history, which is one way we can show honor to our parents, one of the Ten Dave
The one I posted pictures of is the Santa Fe depot, I am not familiar with the other. However, the Santa Fe depot is small, the marbled room is probably around 60 square feet… I could be wrong but not by much… And yes Amtrak’s Heartland Flyer uses this depot… As I said this depot would be nice for Clovis, New Mexico, but it is not what I consider nice for OKC…
ODOT’s website has an aerial photo of the area, but it’s too small to make out any detail. Do you have a better source of information on what they are planning?
There are 2 different depots. The pictures previous to this posting is of the Santa Fe Depot which will never fill Oklahoma’s future transportation needs.
I’m trying to figure out how to attach pictures in this and having problems. I will post them to the http://SaveUnionStation.org website here soon.
That’s sad they want to demolish any part of that station. I’ve seen both the Santa Fe and the Union Station depots in OKC last April 2003 and have pictures of both. Union Station has the Spanish-Southwest architecture. As I remember it’s a central building, 2 or 3 floors high, and it has exterior wings, east and west, that partially wrap around giving it that inner-garden look that many Spanish style houses and buildings poscess. Last time I was there I think it was being used by the Cable TV. I just can’t picture how they’re going to stick a highway through there. I thought those rails behind it were in use. I saw the platforms and there’s not much left, just some rotted wooden support columns and the concrete platform. The wholes in it let you look down and see the tunnels that took people from the platform to the station.
I don’t know how to save a station that small. Kansas City saved their station with a bi-state tax increase for the renovation and Science City attraction that went in there. Now KC-US is about to go bust. They’re not making enough money to pay the bills. I went through Science City once, it’s all kids stuff, a giant playground. If they had done their science exhibits like Exploration Place in Wichita they might have had a lot more business. I’d take a school group to Exploration Place but not Science City. It’s really a kid’s amuesment park.
And because no one’s coming to Union Station the restaurants, theaters, and gift shops are having a hard time. It’s amazing how they restored it to near mint condition the way it looked in 1914 when it was new, but it just doesn’t make money.
But take a look at the depot in Guthrie, OK. They’ve turned it into a restaurant. Maybe if the OKC station were used like that it might have a chance of surviving.
Someday all the stations will be gone and everyone’s either gonna wonder why didn’t we save them or they’re not gonna notice even care.
I got a response from the Oklahoma Historical Society only stating that the historical tunnels feel outside the boundaries for the National Register and wouldn’t give me any information how they concluded that the tunnels weren’t part of the depot.
Does anybody have any suggestions on how this can be appealed?
